Monday 22 June 2015

“AGNI, VAYU AND WATER WERE ALWAYS WORSHIPPED IN HINDUISM”: TRUE/FALSE?

In response to my post “IS QURAN DISCRIMINATING AGAINST THE IDOL WORSHIPPERS BY TOTALLY DENYING THEM HEAVEN?”, friend Veturi Sriharsha is of opinion that Mohammad Alvi is misinterpreting Vedas and Upanishads to show ‘commonalities’ between Islam and Hinduim and Agni (Fire), Vayu (Air) and Water were always worshipped in Hinduism. Veturi Sriharsha writes: “Good way of misinterpreting vedas and upanishads....agni, vayu and water were always worshipped in Hinduism...idol worship was there through yagnas and any attempt to corroborate with Islam looks out of place and a contrived amalgamation which does not match. Hinduism believes in idol worship, and so do Buddhism. Krishna didn't ask Arjuna to kill kauravas because they were non-believers. He said where adharma (unjust) is there we should fight it. No mention of Krishna glorifying himself. Pray, where was it mentioned in Mahabharata that Brahmins sided with Kauravas? I'm afraid a forced attempt was made to somehow drag some 'commonalities' which do not match between Islam and Hinduism.”

MOHAMMAD ALVI writes from here: Dear friend Veturi Sriharsha, Mohammad Alvi is showing the commonalities because there are commonalities in existence. I have just written a few of them, I can write a 1000 pages on the commonalities. In fact, such a great number of commonalities exist because the express purpose of the Vedas was to identify the role of Devas who had a very important role to play in Divine Creation Plan, as powers created even before man, and who were created from ‘divya’ or ‘noor’. Their role was to guide mankind; they were the ropes to salvation. And as part of this guiding process, their noor or jyoti was to descend in human bodies. The noor of all the Devas descended one after another at a secret place that was the desert of Arabia. Vedas are replete with prophecies from the lives of Devas when they will take birth in human form. It is this reason why there are so many commonalities that exist.

I hope you have read my earlier post: “कुछ लोग कहते हैं मौहम्मद अलवी कमीना है”. Before you read any further, you are requested to read that post and then respond whether the Vedas are indeed talking of the birth of Devas in human body or not? The proofs that I have given in that post are just from two hymns of the Vedas; and you yourself are aware how many hymns in the four Vedas talk of the Devas. That is why I claim I can keep presenting the commonalities to you.

You say Agni (fire), Vayu (air) and water were always worshipped by the Hindus. I agree with you only partly. At some period in time, Hindus started worshipping the 5 divinities as the 5 basic elements viz. the material air, fire, water, sky and earth. I ask you a question: are these really the 5 basic elements? Is sky an element? Is there any correlation between material sky and fire? Moreover, when the number 7 was used in the Vedas and Upanishads, it was said that 5 basic elements plus ego and mind are being talked about? Does ego has any correlation with air or sky? Don’t you think these were the interpretations given when there were no interpretations that they could give? Mohammad Alvi, based on his study, is now in position to explain exactly what is meant by the 5, by the 7, by the 12, and by the 14. I hope you are aware, numbers 5, 7, 12, and 14 have been used time and again in the Vedas, Upanishads and Purana.

If Agni is material fire, why do you tell stories to children of Ram leaving Sita in the protection of Agnideva or Krishna meeting one or the other Devas and the various stories of fight between Devatas and Asuras (demons)? If they are material elements, why are there stories of Devatas coming down from heaven to impregnate young maidens? Gita and Upanishads have talked of Indra’s heaven and Gita has even asked us to give a portion of our food in the name of the Devas or else we are thieves.

Despite all this, your claim that they are material elements borders on absurdity. And if you are of view that they are not material elements but divinities, then kindly tell what is so important about them that the entire Vedas are replete with their mention? Vedas are a book of guidance. They are not story books which would have narrated stories of fights between Devatas and Asuras; meaning that some people have derived from their misunderstood translations of the Vedas.

Devas enjoy a far more important postion in Divine Plan than we believe. If we are to aspire for salvation, it is not possible without identifying the Devas because it is they who are the rope to heaven and salvation.

Vedas say:
ओं विष्वानि देव सवितर्दुरितान् िपरासुवा यद् भंद्र तन्न् आसुव।।
“O All-creating Deva please sweep away from us all sins, vices and miseries and grant us all that is beneficial and auspicious.”

If you believe that the material fire, earth, sky and water will sweep away from us the sins, vices and miseries and grant us all that is beneficial and auspicious for us, then there is no point to discuss any further. Truth is that the sacred scriptures of the Hindus, viz. Vedas, Upanishads and Gita are full of mention of the term Deva, who are being invoked in the aforementioned mantra to remove all our sins, vices and miseries. Also, it is clear that things beneficial and auspicious are granted by the Devas. But who are the Devas? Do Hindus or anybody else for that matter know their identity? If we do not know their identity, how will we invoke or remember them.

Our view is that the Divine Scriptures associated with Hindus have been least understood till date. All the four Vedas are full of the mention of Devas yet you ask the Hindus who they are or who they were, and they won’t be able to reveal their identity. They keep the names of their children on the names of the Devatas and Devi, they prey to Devatas like Indra when there is no rain or too much of rain, Devi Saraswati is invoked before seeking knowledge, Lakshmi is believed to be the Devi of Wealth, yet they do not know who these Devatas or Devis are or what are they doing at the moment.

We request you all to keep the faculties of reason open. It is lack of application of our reasoning faculties and our blind devotion to the so-called notions of religious beliefs, devotion and faith, which have led to all the corruption in our lives and religion. We all call ourselves living in the scientific age and consider ourselves enlightened. Yet, we do not put reason to optimum use, particularly in religious matters, thereby most of us end up blindly following the religion of our forefathers, something that has been strongly condemned in the Gita.

In order to understand the truth, we request you to first detach yourself from the beliefs and views inherited and developed all through your life (which is not going to be easy) and then read along with patience.

In Kautilya’s Arthasastra (V.3.xiii.1), we find the Pauranika, Suta and Magadha, as given a very high position in the royal court like the Kartanika (foreteller), Naimittika (reader of omens), Mauhurtika (astrologer) and others and allowed to draw a salary of 1000 Panas, but they are said to have been employed for ‘giving wide publicity to the power of the king to be associated with Devas throughout his territory,’ and in foreign countries, for ‘spreading the news of Devas appearing before the conqueror and of his having received weapons and treasure from heaven.’

These are not our words, but those of Kautilya’s Arthasastra, endorsed by famous writer RC Hazra in his book. The wordings here clearly show that the stories of arms received from Devas in heaven were created to get a psychological advantage over their enemies. But this also shows that people of yore were not believing Devas to be material elements as some of us do now?

Do we require any other proof to show how the character of Devas like Indra got maligned because of the manufactured stories; so much so that several people today believe that Indra was perhaps a man of loose moral character? Could this have been possible, considering that Indra never came down on earth, for there are Upanishads telling ‘has anybody seen Indra?’

It is extremely sorry that the present-day Hindus see even Kautilya’s Arthasastra as part of their religious literature, in spite of the fact that Kautilya had nothing to do with true religion. Teachings like those that talk of using all possible means, even deplorable, to achieve one’s objectives, are oft quoted by the Hindus. They forget that Kautilya was merely a shrewd politician who used religion to his advantage. Otherwise, the real preachers of true Hindu teachings are the likes of Maryada Purushottam Rama who left the palace life to live a life of hardships just for an apparently insignificant moral issue. Likewise, physical purity of his wife was so dear to Rama that he forced Sita, his beloved wife for whom he had taken on the might of a powerful king, to agni-pariksha. It is sad chapter of Indian history that the later day scholars gave worldly men, like Kautilya, who had nothing to do with spirituality or religion, the aura of auspiciousness and who believed in the manufactured stories of impropriety linked to Devatas like Indra and Prajapati.

This is how all those absurd stories about Devas like Indra and Vayu came into circulation, which form part of the present-day Puranas. If the priests and the kings could go to these levels to retain their hold over power, they would have surely tried to hide their sins once the lady who had to face their lustful deeds got pregnant. This was particularly so because the king’s fame had been built on righteous acts and it was not expected of them or of the maidens of their household to have ill-gotten children. The blame was conveniently shifted on the Devas, whom none had seen but all revered and worshipped. This could not have happened without support of the high priests. Therefore, we see several such children when we read Mahabharata; a great many of them were fighting either on the side of Krishna or against him.

Is it difficult to comprehend that the sins of sages and kings were ascribed to the Devas? So much so that if a woman in forest was impregnated by somebody and if she happened to be from an influential family, it was publicized that Indra or Sun God or Moon God came down to commit that act of sin, thereby taking away the blame from that woman and also hiding the identity of the person who impregnated her. Since money was spent in this propaganda drive and the learned sages were responsible for carrying it out, because of their firm hold on the simple and ignorant people, it slowly became part of folklore, all of whom were later given a place in the Puranas when they were rewritten due to certain unknown compulsions at a later stage. After all, if the woman said that it was the moon-god who did this to her, and the revered sage authenticated it by saying that the moon-god came to him to wash away the remnants, consequent to performing the act, it was difficult to disbelieve it.

The sages were even smarter. They even befooled the kings at time, so that the kings gave away their wives to them, in order to produce children possessing devata-like powers. Vishnu Purana recounts one such incident. Similar incidents are available in few other Puranas as well. It is common sense that the kings married the most beautiful of women. The priests, owing to their extraordinary power over the kings and also because of the false supremacy that they had propagated for themselves, made these kings part away with their wives. The wives came to sleep with these ‘revered sages’ so that children with extraordinary powers were born to them. Thus the priests even initiated adultery, using the great respect that people and kings had for them. And the common people must have continued to see them as Brahmcharis (willfully celibate).

Puranas say that even in Krishna’s time, examples of Rishis begetting children from young and unmarried women and having illicit relationships with the wives of the kshattriya kings and princes abound.

Another reason why the priests enjoyed such great supremacy over kings was because of the great control that these pseudo-priests had over the common people. The kings feared that the priests were in position to create a negative atmosphere about the king, if they fell from their grace. The chief priest only had to wake up in the morning and say that such and such Deva came in dream and said that the king was not working as per the Vedic teachings, and people would have ousted the king. On the contrary, if the king kept them satisfied, they narrated positive stories to the people. Even stories of arms coming from heaven were created to give a psychological advantage over the enemies. Thus they went out of the way to satisfy the priest, even if it meant sending their wives to them or showering them with gifts. Puranas have even given incidents where priests not only removed a king over a flimsy issue but also killed him and made his son, who was a day old, as king.

Read the entire Matsya Purana and you will get to realize the significance of Krishna’s statement when he said that God was nowhere to be found in the religious sacrifices and neither were the teachings of morality, auspiciousness, chastity, non-violence, etc. were visible. The image of Paramatma gobbling all the Devas and Demons was shown to Arjuna because people of the time were indeed worshipping all of them and were not cognizing God. This exactly was the adharm that Krishna talked about.

It is unfortunate that people of yore had developed stories regarding Indra and Brhaspati of such low level they do not seem to listen to the talk of morality in front of their lustful desires or when in love with someone else’s wife. How can this be accepted of Indra or Brhaspati when Divine Scriptures like the Vedas are full of praises for them? Even their righteousness and steadfastness has been praised time and again. But have we understood the Vedas truly? It is clear that we have not! Fact remains that Indra and Brhaspati are the highest creation of the Absolute God and the rest of jivas (beings) owe their creation to them. If Puranas have penned down such thoughts about them, it shows that they contain nothing but heresy and myths, written by someone who was himself unable to distinguish between right and wrong.

The Vishnu Purana mentions several instances where Rishis built huge palaces for their wives, which were many. Rishi Saubhari made King Mandhatri marry all his 50 daughters to him. The king did so as he was ‘dreading to incur the anger and imprecation of the holy man.’ Such was the fear of these ‘holy men’.

Vishnu Purana says: “The sage took them home to his habitation, where he employed the chief of architects, Visvakarman, equal in taste and skill to Brahma himself, to construct separate palaces of each of his wives: he ordered him to provide each building with elegant couches and seats and furnitures, and to attach to them gardens and groves, with reservoirs of water, where the wild-duck and the swan should sport amidst beds of lotus flowers.”

We read these accounts and move ahead. Not for a moment do we realize the negative aspect of it. All the wealth had got confined in the hands of the Rishis. Rishi Saubhari had so much of wealth that he could afford 50 palaces for his 50 wives. Did we ever think from where all this would have come? Even the kings were afraid of the Rishis, so much so that a king parted with all his daughters and married them to an old Rishi, who could not even walk straight. Naturally, the kings bestowed generous donations on the sages and even supplied them with women, sometimes their own wives, so as to keep them happy. How these Rishis could have ever endorsed Krishna’s teachings, which talked of returning to God and righteousness? They knew that Krishna emphasized on righteousness and subjugation to none but God and accepting these teachings would have meant bidding farewell to their lives of luxury. This is the reason why Bhishma and Drona, who surely represented an entire group of Brahmans stood up to oppose Krishna, thereby leading to the battle of Mahabharata. Who would have liked to loose such a lifestyle where the kings too were afraid of the Rishis and sages to such a great extent?

See the conditions of those times in the words of Maitri Upanishad and introspect whether some of the evils described have crept our present society or not.

VII.8 says:
Now then, the hindrances to knowledge, O King. This is indeed the source of the net of delusion, the association of one who is worthy of heaven with those who are not worthy of heaven, that is it. Though it is said there is a grove before them they cling to a low shrub. Now there are some who are always hilarious, always abroad, always begging, always making a living by handicraft. And others are who are beggars in town, who perform sacrifices, for the unworthy, who are the disciples of Sudras and who, though Sudras, are learned in the scriptures. And others there are who are wicked, who wear their hair in a twisted knot, who are dancers, who are mercenaries, traveling mendicants, actors, those who have been degraded in the king’s service. And others there are who, for money, profess they can allay (the evil influences) of Yaksas (sprites), Raksasas (ogres), ghosts, goblins, devils, serpents, imps and the like. And others there are who, under false pretexts, wear the read rope, earrings and skulls. And others there are who love to distract the believers in the Veda by the jugglery of false arguments, comparisons and paralogisms, with these one should not associate. These creature, evidently, are thieves and unworthy of heaven. For this has it been said: The world bewildered by doctrines that deny the self, by false comparisons and proofs does not discern the difference between wisdom and knowledge.

This is a very important passage as it tells to what extent degradation had occurred. All types of pseudo-worshippers were present who were not worthy of going to heaven. There were some whose company itself, people were advised, not to keep. And there was a group of evil men who were working to distract the people from the Vedas by the jugglery of false arguments, comparisons and parallelisms. That they are described as thieves and not worthy of heaven tells clearly the bad times through which Hinduism had to pass through.

It is clear the conflict between good and bad was at its peak and the chief worry of the followers of the true path was to safeguard the teachings of the Vedas. The distinction between ignorant and wise had diminished or almost evaporated. Those who were ignorant were considered knowledgeable and likewise, vice versa. People doubted the revealed scriptures like Vedas and stories were circulating regarding the identity of Devas, who were sometimes portrayed playing villainous roles. Some of these, like the fight between Devas and demons were so sporadically spread that they have even reached us as myths. It is extremely doubtful whether they are based on truth. Yet, such was the intensity of these narrations that the sage Yama had to take recourse to one such story to reveal the importance of Vedas and to downgrade the value of demons. This is apparent from the following verse.

See VII.10 of the Maitri Upanishad:
Verily, the Devas and the demons, being desirous of (knowing) the self went into the presence of Brahma. Having bowed before him they said, Revered Sir, we are desirous of (knowing) the self, so do you tell us. Then, after having reflected a long while, he thought in himself. Verily, these demons are desirous of a self different (from the true one). Therefore a very different doctrine was told to them. On that these deluded (demons) here live their life, with intense attachment, destroying the means of salvation and praising what is false. They see the false, as if it were true, as in jugglery. Therefore what is set forth in the Vedas, that is the truth. On what is said in the Vedas, on that wise men live their life. Therefore a Brahman should not study what is not of the Veda. This should be the purpose.

Vedas, it is reiterated here as well, are the supreme source of all rightful information. And the fact that wise men lived their life waiting for the Devas to come too can be derived from Vedas and various Upanishads. Since the authenticity and greatness of Devas is maintained in all books having a Divine association (the Vedas and Gita), nobody can deny the role of Devas in God’s schemes related to this Creation. My request to you is not to look at the illiterate people of yore to tell you who are the Devas. They were not having the brains to understand their role and position. Use your intellect and if you will do so, truth will glare at your face.

If the Vedas are revealed scriptures, as they are rightly believed to be so, there must be some very strong reason why the entire Vedas (all four of them) talk of the Devas and nothing else? But if Vedas are full of description of Devas, why is it that the present Hindu society does not give the same status to the Devas? Why is it that scholars like Dayanand Saraswati translated the term Deva as steam engines, airplanes, etc. and other commentators showed that the Devas existed at one point of time but their role is not that important anymore? Surely there is something amiss! Does that mean that the Vedas have lost their relevance now? Never! If this is not so then we will have to accept that that we have not understood the Vedas and the Devas truly till date. The Devas are, as have been described in various Upanishads, truly the source of all knowledge revealed to show us the true path.

Verse 1.2:4 of Mundaka Upanishad talks of the seven and does not fail to state that one of them is a Devi. It is unfortunate that there are still people who claim that by 7 the 5 basic elements, ego and mind are meant. The very fact that one of the moving tongues of fire is a Devi, which has been wrongly translated as goddess by commentators, shows the remaining six must be Devas. In my earlier posts, I have shown that the Devas are actually fourteen in number but with seven names and one of them is a Devi. You will also see that Puranas state that of the 14 Manus, one is a Devi. Even in case of Manus, number seven has been used at times, indicating that Manus and Devas are one and the same. The names that are given of the Manus are also the names that are given to the Devas. We fail to understand how commentators failed to notice even this.

I.2.4: The seven moving tongues of fire are the black, the terrific, the swift as mind, the very red, the very smoky-coloured, the spark blazing, the all-shaped (or all-tasting) goddess (original word in Sanskrit is Devi).

Next verse tells clearly that the Devas alone are subject of discussion and we were not wrong in concluding, in the previous verse, that there are Devas with six names and one Devi, who originated from the One Light of the Manifest Self created by the Absolute God - as light or fire or Noor with power over all things in the universe. The succeeding verse also categorically states that there would be a time when these seven tongues, of whom one is a Devi, would come to shine on this earth, like the various rays of the sun. It is stated that this would happen at an appropriate time. The verse talks of ‘performing work’ and ‘making offerings’ when these Devas would come on earth, thus making it explicitly clear that it will be our duty to perform certain works for them and make offerings to these Devas, when they would come on earth. Brhad-aranyaka Upanishad even says that there were people who, when on their death-bed, used to lament to their sons that they (the Devas) didn’t come in their lifetime so that they would have helped them in their works. These people willed their sons to be on the side of the Devas, if they came during the lifetime of their sons.

Read what I.2.5 of Mundaka Upanishad says:
Whosoever performs works, makes offerings, when these are shining and at the proper time, these in the form of the rays of the sun lead him to that where the one lord of the Devas abide.

 It is explicitly clear from this that Devas are not God, but the one lord of the Devas is someone else and it is the Devas who function as the rope to lead us to the Lord.

We hope these verses leave no room for doubt that there was a time when the Indo-Aryans were waiting for the arrival of the Devas. The Vedas too are in future tense, imploring the Devas to descend in human form on earth. It is clear that the Devas had not made an appearance till the time the Vedas, the Puranas, the Upanishads and even Gita were composed.

Verse 1.2.6 of Mundaka again shows clearly that the Devas had not come by then; they would come to shine at a proper time, and through ritual offerings the aim was to invite them to come. This is not the translation done by us but that of Radhakrishnan, a great scholar of Sanskrit. Read the verse and you will find that a sacrificer is praying to the Devas so that they come and lay straight the path to Brahma’s Heaven. Does this not indicate that the path that leads to a permanent stay in Brahma’s Heaven is inevitably linked with the Devas? As you read further, you will find that even Krishna has talked of Devas and the Manifest Self, though the word used by him is Indra’s Heaven, thereby indicating a link between Brahma and the Devata Indra.

See I.2.6 from Mundaka Upanishad:
The radiant offerings invite him with the words, ‘come, come,’ and carry the sacrificer by the rays of the sun, honouring him and saluting him with pleasing words: ‘This is your holy world of Brahma won through good deeds.’

The words are clear! The Devas are being invoked through radiant offerings and ritual sacrifices to come to live in this world. As time passed, people forgot the purpose of these offerings and sacrifices but continued to perform them without knowing their true purport. Whether this happened during the 1000 years when Buddhism reigned supreme or earlier cannot be said with certainty.

Verse 8 of Mundaka tells clearly that those who consider themselves as wise but are ignorant of this knowledge, related to the role of the Devas in salvation and subsequent permanent stay in Brahma’s Heaven, are blind.

I.2.8: Abiding in the midst of ignorance, wise in their own esteem, thinking themselves to be learned, fools, afflicted with troubles, go about like blind men led by one who is himself blind.
I.2.9. The immature, living manifoldly in ignorance, think ‘we have accomplished our aim.’ Since those who perform rituals do not understand (these 7 moving tongues of fire) because of attachment, therefore they sink down, wretched when their worlds (i.e. the fruits of their merits) are exhausted.

Isn’t the aforementioned verse again stating that it is not possible to ‘accomplish one’s spiritual aim’ without recognizing these seven Devas who have also been mentioned as Satrudras? People who are not able to recognize these seven moving tongues of fire are described as wretched, immature and ignorant. Those who perform rituals without knowing their true purpose are condemned.
Those who perform righteous acts without the knowledge of those who have been created as the torchbearers to Brahma’s Heaven, may get temporary rewards after death but eventually they will have to come back to earth, more likely in a lower state. See how sacrifices and works of merits too would not serve any purpose, in terms of getting salvation, if those who are to show the path to salvation are not identified. Manifest Self, which comprises of the ‘seven moving tongues of fire’ - the Devas with six names and a Devi - will show the path to salvation. Scholars of Sanskrit know this when they talk of a Nirakar (formless) becoming Saakar (manifest), but have been unable to understand truly what the scriptures meant when they described the process, ending on the Devas.

 You will be interested to note that Krishna too has talked of the same subject, and in greater detail. You will find that Gita too has equated permanent bliss or salvation with the recognition of the Manifest Self. Ponder for a moment, are we suitably prepared for salvation? Have we identified the torchbearers till now?

Let’s move ahead to give you still more examples.
In Svetasvatara Upanishad, sage Svetasvatara gives the cause of our creation as something else than the Brahman (God). Brahman created the devatma-sakti (the power of the combined soul of Devas; this has been mentioned by none else than Radhakrishnan) and then the mankind was created out of this Divine Atma (Manifest Self), when Brahman (God) was pleased with their worship. The fourteen devas who were created out of this One Manifest Self or devatma sakti govern our lives and bodies. It can henceforth be inferred that the cause of creation through the Manifest Self or devatma shakti was to worship Brahman and lead us to the worship of Brahman.

Svetasvatara Upanishad refers to this devatma-sakti (self-power) as the cause of this universe, and goes on to say in verse I.4 that the rope of this devatma sakti is manifold (as it comprises of 14 Devas; each being the ruler of the 14 spheres, and also the rulers of our organs of senses and action).
In this Upanishad, Sage Svetasvatara is asked the question, “What is the cause? Brahman? Whence are we born? By what do we live? And on what are we established?” Svetasvatara replies that the cause is the devatma-sakti, which is presided by the Brahman (God), thereby confirming that Brahman (God) is not involved in the day-to-day affairs of the running of this world. All these affairs, including life and death, creation and destruction, and sending of the Messengers to lead us to the worship of Absolute God are in the hands of the devatma-shakti; thus the Devatas.

Sage Svetasvatara says:
O ye who know Brahman, presided over by whom do we live our different conditions in pleasures and other than pleasures (pains).
Now see the succeeding verses in succession:
I.2. Time, inherent nature, necessity, chance, the (five) elements, the womb or the person be considered as the cause? It cannot be a combination of these because of the existence of the soul. Even the soul is powerless in respect of the cause of pleasure and pain.
I.3. Those who followed after meditation and contemplation saw the (devatma-sakti) self-power of the Divine hidden in its own qualities. He is the one who rules over all these causes from time to the soul.
I.4. Him (the self-power), whose one rope is manifold.

See how clearly this Upanishad states that the self-power (devatma shakti) created by Brahman (the God) is one that moves this universe. It is stated that the self-power is manifold, thereby confirming that the Devas and one Devi comprise this self-power. The word used is ‘rope’. Just as a ‘rope’ is made through uniting several similar ropes, the power of the Devas, when combined, form the devatma shakti. You will be surely interested to note that the subject of rope is also an oft-quoted subject in Quran and Prophet Mohammad’s traditions. More interestingly, the 14 Noor that had 7 names viz. the Ahlulbayt have been described as the rope to heaven.

In the next verse of Svetasvatara Upanishad, this rope is compared to a river of five streams, which together comprise the Life (Prana). In another Upanishad which describes Life (Prana) and there too you will see that five components of Life are described and later 9 more to make it fourteen. Just as a rope comprises of several ropes, each of which has similar attributes and may have further sub-ropes, similarly, five Devas comprise the five streams, and from them emanate the 9 sub-streams.

The purpose of these Devas is to lead us to God. Since various Upanishads like Paingala Upanishad confirm that the Devas were created from the pure (sattvik) essence of Vishnu, the soul in a human body at the time of birth is in pure state as it is having direct relation to the devatma-sakti.

The purpose of our creation is to tread on the path shown by the Devas, so as to attain union with the Absolute. This could only be possible by single-minded devotion and worship of the God. Those who are unable to do this and fall to the material attractions around them, their fall becomes impure and hence is unable to unite with the Paramatma (the Chief Soul), at the time of death. Such a soul needs to take birth again and again, through different wombs depending on the state of the soul at the time of the physical death of the body. This process continues till a stage is reached when the soul finally attains the union.

Gita too confirms this view.

The Devas ceaselessly try to lead us to God and won’t be satisfied until all the souls get united with the God. This is the desire that Devas are ceaselessly trying to fulfill. In order to fulfill this desire, they even took birth in human form (and were called Ahlulbayt), lived a life of hardship when on earth and even gave sacrifices of their happiness as well as life, but continued working to achieve their objective. The one who is referred to as Kalki Avatar in Vishnu Purana and elsewhere, or the last of the 14 Devas (referred to as Mahdi by Muslims), would surely achieve that goal. Presently, it is our duty that we live the life in such a manner that we give these Devas reason to be pleased with us.

I.13 says:
As the form of fire when latent in its source is not seen and yet its seed is not destroyed, but may be seized again and again in its source by means of the drill, so it is in both cases. The self has to be seized in the body by means of the syllable Aum.

The Eternal is very much present in the self inside our body but it cannot be truly known without a sincere effort in the right direction. The syllable Aum helps us in attaining this objective. That merely uttering a word lead us to such a state; it would be naïve to think so! Salvation cannot be attained unless we know the meaning of Aum truly. Upanishads say that Aum too is related to the flight towards attaining unity with God, but through a bird composed of fourteen Devas, one of whom is a devi. The vowels of Aum signify the five Devas, who were created from the One Self called Life or Prana, and the ardh-matra signify the 9 devatas, also part of the Prana or Life.

I.14. As oil in sesamum seeds, as butter in cream, as water in riverbeds, as fire in friction sticks, so is the Self seized in one’s own soul if one looks for Him with truthfulness and austerity.

If we look for the Self through the help of Aum, signifying the fourteen Devas, we will know that it is present in our souls itself. But truthfulness, austerity and sincere effort are pre-requisite without which it is not possible to realize one’s self and attain unity with the God.

Vedas say that the Devas are the leaders of our organs of action and senses. All through Gita, Krishna has stressed on the need to align one’s self with the Manifest Self. The organs of action and senses are to be given under the control of the Devas and all actions are performed for God, without seeking any returns. Such a person eventually attains salvation.

I.16. The Self which pervades all things as butter is contained in milk, which is the root of self-knowledge and austerity, that is the Brahman, the highest mystic doctrine. That is the highest mystic doctrine.

The Self may have 14 constituents, but when they all are united, that is Brahman, It is Brahman alone who is present in all of us as butter is so uniformly present in milk, through the Devas. Recognizing this relationship of our self with the Brahman is the root of self-knowledge and austerity.

Verse 14 of Chapter II describes further the condition of one attaining unity with the Self. It says:

 Even as a mirror stained by dust shines brightly when it has been cleaned, so the embodied one when he has seen the nature of the self becomes integrated, of fulfilled purpose and freed from sorrow.

 II.15. When by means of the nature of his self he sees as by a lamp here the nature of Brahman, by knowing God who is unborn, steadfast, free from all natures, he is released from all fetters.
II.16. He indeed, is the God who pervades all regions, He is the first-born and he is within the womb. He has been born and he will be born. He stands opposite all persons, having his face in all directions.
II.17. The God who is in fire, who is in water, who has entered into the whole world, who is in plants, who is in trees, to that God be adoration, yea, be adoration.

After talking about the God, the subject again returns to Devas in the third chapter of Svetasvatara Upanishad. We have seen in Vedas that Rudra has been used for Ali. Here it is explicitly stated that Rudra is the great seer, and source and origin of all the Devas, the one who gave birth to the golden germ. It is he who rules all these words with his ruling powers, he is the protector, and it is he who after creating all worlds withdraws them at the end of time.

See what III.1-2 says:
The one who spreads the net, who rules with his ruling powers, who rules all the world with his ruling powers, who remains one, while arise and continue to exist, they who know that become immortal.

 Truly Rudra is one, there is no place for a second, who rules all these worlds, with his ruling powers. He stands opposite creatures. He, the protector, after creating all worlds, withdraws them at the end of time.

The extent to which the Devas have been empowered can be seen from the aforementioned verses. It is Rudra or Ali as Deva who has spread this net of creation and who rules overall the worlds, who is the protector, after creation, and who it will be who will withdraw the creation towards the end.
Isn’t it clear now? Be it tsunami, hurricane or a quake – it is Rudra who can save us from it. It is Rudra to whom we should turn our prayers for sustenance and protection. If we won’t do so, the day is not far when he may withdraw the creation.

Interestingly, there is a small prayer to Ali that some of his devout followers recite when in need of help. It goes like this: Nade aliyan mazharul ajaib (Try to call Ali, who is the carrier of miraculous powers of God); Tajidho aunan laka fin nawaib, kullo hamminv wa ghamminv sayanjali (you will find him coming to assistance in each of your problems and calamities); be azamateka ya Allah (in the name of the greatness of God), be nubuvvateka ya Mohammad (in the name of the prophethood of Mohammad), be vilayateka (in the name of Ali’s successorship) ya Ali, ya Ali, ya Ali adriknee (O Ali, O Ali, O Ali help me).

Consequent to showering praises on Rudra, the Upanishad talks of all the Devas in the succeeding verse. These Devas have been compared to a tree, established in heaven, from whom the whole universe is filled. These, described as Person, or one entity, is beyond this world, are without form and without suffering. Those who know that become immortal, but others go only to sorrow, it is said.

See III.4 talks of Rudra again and cites his relationship with all the rest of Devas:

 He who is the source and origin of devas (powers), the ruler of all, Rudra, the great seer, who of old gave birth to the golden germ. (Hiranya-garbha), may he endow us with clear understanding.

Prayer to Rudra or the Noor of Ali is being made. It is he who is the great seer. (Even Gita has referred to the seven great seers). He created the golden germ (refer to Brhad-aranyaka and Paingala Upanishads for more) and it is through him that all the Devas and consequently all the beings originated. If due to such stress on the role of this Deva in the creation of the cosmos, some people erroneously took to the worship of the phallus, we should not be surprised. You will be surprised to know that there was a time when phallus was being worshipped not only India, but in Mesopotamia, China and Japan, Greece and Rome, Egypt, Australia and America.

In the aforementioned verse, Rudra is also invoked for a clear understanding so that all the obstacles in recognizing him and his true position get removed. Once we are able to do so, we will also realize the importance of other Devas, upon cognizing whose true identity and gaining knowledge about their true position, the path to immortality will be become clear and reachable.

Verse 3 of Jabala Upanishad too confirms this. ‘Once students of sacred knowledge asked (Yajnavalkya): Can we gain life eternal by the repetition of formulas (mantras)? Yajnavalkya said (in reply) By (meditation on) saturudriya which are the names of eternal life, one becomes immortal. [Saturudriya again means the seven rudras.]

And see how the prayer to Rudra to come down on earth with his body is made in the following verse:

 III.5: Rudra, your body which is auspicious, unterrifying, showing no evil – with that most benign body, O dweller in the high places, look upon us.

 Rudra did come down in human body and was known as Ali.

 Interestingly, the Matsya Purana has clearly stated Aditi to be one of the names of Devi, along with Parvati, Saraswati, Durga, Lakshmi, Sati, Devi, and others. In fact, Matsya Purana goes on to give more than 100 names for this Devi. Inability to understand the identity of this Devi led to the evolution of several myths around her various names, though the source of all those myths continue to remain in the Vedas or rather people’s wrong interpretation of Vedas. It is clearly stated by Dowson that in the Rig-veda, she “is frequently implored for blessings on children and cattle, for protection and for forgiveness.”

One of the names of Devi is Rudrani. She is also Parvati, who is the wife of Shiv. From this description, it may be proved that the Devi when she took birth in human body was named Fatima. Famous researcher of Vedas, Dowson is of opinon that the Devas were born from each other and derived their substance from one another. Fatima is the only female in the list of 14 Ahlulbayt; interestingly the 14 Ahlulbayt have only 7 names; just as the 14 Manu are at other times described as 7 and at times Upanishad says 7 and 7 instead of directly saying 14.

Zulmat (Tamas or Forces of Darkness) was always bent on destroying the knowledge of this rope to salvation and worship. That is why all attempts were made and are still being made to divert us from attaining true knowledge of the Devas. It is these reason attaining their knowledge has been referred to as a great secret. Brhad-aranyaka Upanishad: I.II.7 says:

He desired, let this (body) of mine be fit for sacrifice and let me have a self through this. Thereupon, it became a horse, because it swelled, it has become fit for sacrifice. Therefore the horse-sacrifice came to be known as aswa-medha. He who knows this, verily, knows the asva-medha. Letting it remain free, he reflected: and at the end of a year (after a time-gap) he offered it to himself. He gave up the animals to the divinities. Therefore (men, priests) offer to Prajapati the sanctified (horse) dedicated to all the devas (all the divisions of Self or all the illuminators of knowledge). Verily, that (self) which gives of heat is the horse-sacrifice. His body is the year. This fire is the arka and that these worlds are his bodies. So there are two, the sacrificial fire and the horse sacrifice. Yet again they are one divinity, even death. He overcomes repeated death, death cannot get hold of him, death becomes his body, and he becomes one with these divinities.

In II.7, the knowledge of these men is referred to as ‘sanctified’, or ‘proksitam’. Aswa-medha sacrifice, it is evident was initiated in remembrance of this greater sacrifice of the Devas. It is clearly stated that upon reflecting, he gave himself to the beasts (meaning men with beastly qualities or rather those under the influence of their animal selfs). Not knowing the true significance of these verses, commentators like Radhakrishnan have used divinities and animals together. Fact is that people with animal selfs killed Husain; it was a sacrifice that he gave for upholding of Divine teachings. Again two types of sacrifices are talked about, pertaining to the death of Hasan and Husain due to dissimilar circumstances and it is stated that in spite of that, “they are one divinity, even (in) death.” They are to ‘alabhata’, ‘offer’ or ‘sacrifice themselves for Him’.

It is clearly stated that all the divinities are one and the same. And we find Mohammad too saying that the fourteen were one and the same. He said:

The first is Mohammad, the last is Mohammad, the middle is Mohammad and all are Mohammad.
Once again, II.7 indicates that some divine secret is being talked about.

  He (who knows this) overcomes repeated death, death cannot get hold of him, death becomes his body, and he becomes one with these divinities.

If you recall, this Upanishad had talked of deliverance and vehicle/s of religious truth in the beginning. Till here, first five of the Devas and their origin is being discussed. You have already seen before how these five are together termed as Prana or Life. Also, nine more devas were created from the progeny of fifth, in succession, to make it fourteen. The last or the fourteenth of them too is Mahiman or Mohammad, just as the first, from whom all the rest were created, was Mahiman or Mohammad. The last deva is to appear in future as Mahdi or Kalki avatar, and upon his appearance all hidden truths will be revealed. This too has been described at countless places in Puranas and Upanishads.

If no secret is being talked about here, then why it is being repeatedly said, “He who knows this stands firm wherever he goes.” So much of weightage is given to “this knowledge”, in verse after verse.

 I.III.11. That divinity, verily, having struck off the evil, the death, of those divinities, next carried them beyond death.

It is clear from the aforementioned verses that life beyond death is related to the knowledge of the devas described above. Once the evil is struck off, and the knowledge of Udgitha is known, people would attain salvation. After all, Gita has clearly stated that salvation or freedom from rebirth is directly related to the recognition of the Manifest Self of God. The fourteen devas were created from that Manifest Self, and we know from Vedas itself that Mohammad is the chief of them all.

Later in III.16, it says:
Thus, verily, that divinity carries beyond death him who knows thus.

And see III.17:
Then it chanted food for itself. For whatever food is eaten is eaten by him alone. In it is established.

See what Isa Upanishad has to say further:
 I.6: And he who sees all beings in his own self and his own self in all (14) beings, he does not feel any revulsion by reason of such a view.

This verse too states clearly that there are more than one being inside us and hence it cannot be meant for God. It is the Devas who pervade our soul and body to such an extent that there would be no life without them. That is why realizing one’s own self leads to recognition of the God (see verse I.7)

I.7. When, to one who knows, all beings have, verily, become one with his own self, then what delusion and what sorrow can be to him who has seen the oneness?
I.8. He has filled all; He is radiant, bodiless, invulnerable, devoid of sinews, pure, untouched by evil. He, the seer, thinker, all-pervading, self-existent has duly distributed through endless years the objects according to their natures.

 I.12. Into blinding darkness enter those who worship the Unmanifest and into still greater darkness, as it were, those who delight in the manifest.

 I.14. He who understands the manifest and the Unmanifest both together, crosses death through the manifest and attains life eternal through the manifest.

That we have deviated from the true path far enough can be seen from the fact that none of us knows the distinction between manifest and Unmanifest that the Upanishads are trying hard to preach. How then can we think of attaining salvation when it is clearly stated that salvation is directly linked to this knowledge?

We have already mentioned earlier that God was fully aware of the nature of man and knew that majority of them would not be able to comprehend the presence of a Non-manifest God. Therefore, he created a Manifest Self, which divided into two, then from marriage of a self created out of one with the second self, two more were created, to make it five and then 9 took birth successively to make it fourteen. Lest these divisions make somebody think that their power diminished due to divisions, Upanishads have laborously tried to send the message that all were equal in power and status to the original Manifest Self of God, in spite of all divisions and retained all the characteristics of the original Manifested Self of God. This has already been described previously in Isa Upanishad itself, which says:

That is full; this is full. The full comes out of the full.

Perhaps Mohammad too was trying to convey the same message when he said:

 First of us is Mohammad, last of us is Mohammad, the middle of us is Mohammad, all are Mohammad.

Sunday 21 June 2015

IS QURAN DISCRIMINATING AGAINST THE IDOL WORSHIPPERS BY TOTALLY DENYING THEM HEAVEN?

A Hindu friend here, who regularly asks questions in my inbox, has put forth a situation and wants Mohammad Alvi to respond. Here is what my friend acronymed VAM has to write:
 
“Please consider this scenario- There are 3 people on a railway platform. One is an idol worshipper and the remaining two are strictly monotheists. Now one of the monotheists person beats another monotheist, drags him on the railway track while a train is approaching very soon. The idol worshipper guy extended his hand to help the victim as he sees the guy will get crushed if he do not help him. Tell me one thing, in that scenario, will you just deny his help just because he worships idol and get killed? Or will you take his help for saving his life in such terrific situation?

Why do Quran calls idol worshippers as worst of all creatures and insults them? Why a "Believer" man who commits a major sin (for example: murder, rape) will get temporary punishment in Hellfire, but he will be later welcome at Paradise after certain period; and an "Non Believer" man will be forever denied Paradise just because he worshipped an idol. If that is truly the concept in Quran then I'm extremely sorry to say, I do not agree with such a discrimination against Hindus.”
Mohammad Alvi responds from here! Dear friend, VAM! The first part of your question is easy to answer. You say that if the monotheist person is about to be killed by a fast approaching train and an idol worshipper extends his hand to help, will he deny his help just because he worships idol and get killed? Or will he take his help for saving his life in such a terrific situation?

 Answer is that the believer man should take the help of any person, even if he is a non-believer, to save his life. This is so because Islam has valued life extensively. And it has valued life of all creatures, even non-Muslims.  Life is a precious gift of God. We have been sent on earth to give a test and if we are capable of saving our life but do not save it, then we are devaluing the gift of God. That is why suicide is totally prohibited in Islam. You won’t find many Muslims committing suicide. Also putting oneself in situations where there is chance of death too has not been allowed.

This said and done, there is another aspect to the question that you have not asked. Let us reverse the situation. Suppose it is the non-believer who is about to be crushed by a moving train and he puts his hand across towards a believer in hope that he would pull him up. Should the believer save the life of the non-believer? Yes, it is obligatory on the believer Muslim to save the life of a non-believer. In fact, as per Islamic ruling, even if a person is offering prayers in front of God and he hears a cry that somebody is dying, say somebody is drowning, and he is sure that he would be able to save the person, then it is mandatory on him on leave the prayer and go and save him. It is mandatory even if the person is a non-believer or an open enemy of Islam.

You might ask why save an enemy? Answer is that he might be an enemy but he has not come to combat at point of time. He is a human being and that is most important. When Prophet Mohammad said you are not a Muslim if anybody upto 40 houses on either side of your house sleeps without food, he never talked of a believer or a non-believer. And when he said that you are not a Muslim if anybody feels threatened by your hand or tongue, then too he never talked of a believer or a non-believer.

I give you three examples from the lives of Ahlulbayt. Ali (regarding whom I am proving time and again from Vedas that the Noor of Marut [Rudra/Shiv] descended in human body in Arabia and he was called Ali) was appointed as the Caliph of Muslims. Muawiya, who had become extremely powerful while serving as Governor of Syria, waged a war against Ali. This war is called the battle of Siffin. There came a situation where Ali and Muawiya’s armies came face to face at a place where there was just one source of water. Muawiya’s forces fortified this source of water so that Ali’s forces die of thirst. And they literally reached a stage where they would die of water. Ali told his followers to attack Muawiya and try to capture the source of water. The attack was made and Ali’s forces gained control of water. Several people in Ali’s army wanted that water should be denied to Muawiya’s forces just as they had done to Ali’s forces. The war would have been easily won had Ali listened to his own people. But Ali lifted the siege from water saying that water is God’s gift to entire humanity and he cannot lay siege on God’s bounty. It was because victory could not be achieved in this war that led to Ali being finally killed by man who was said to have been sent by Muawiya. Had Ali been victorious in this war, the great losses that his forces had to face and the consequent killing of Ali himself would not have happened. But that is not the point. Islam does not allow the rights of even the non-believers to be usurped. Water is one right, right to live is the most important of rights.

Some people who are immersed in materialism and only think of worldly benefits might argue saam, daam and dand could be used in a war with enemy. That is to say, everything is fair in war. But Islam does not allow this. In fact, Sanatan dharm also does not allow this. Hindus present the saying of Kautilya when they say that saam, daam and dand (that is all means, right or wrong) are permissible in war. But they forget that Kautilya was not a religious authority of Sanatan dharma. Let us look at Krishna to find an answer. Krishna tells the onlookers who were not on either side that this is no path. Either come to this side or go to the side of the enemy. There can be no middle path between right and wrong. Thus, Krishna is even creating a situation where the onlookers might end up adding to the number of those in the enemy camp. But he is least bothered. And as he tells Arjuna, it is not important that the war is won. He says even if you kill or get killed, you are blessed. War may be won or lost, but principles cannot be sacrificed. Ali too did the same. He was the carrier of the Noor (Light) that was created at the beginning of cosmos. Noor’s job is to guide and lead us towards the path of righteousness and worship of God. He couldn’t be doing what those who were under the influence of Zulmat were doing. Zulmat’s purpose of creation is to mislead us from the path of righteousness and worship of God. Very much like the teachings of Krishna, Quran says that we are from God and we have to return to God. Husain (Agnidev of Vedas) added another line to it: we are agreeable to fate in all ways (even if death falls on us or we fall on death) and we won’t leave the side of righteousness.

Did you see? Who could be a greater disbeliever than one who came to fight Devata Ali himself? But the disbelievers too have the right to live with dignity and enjoy the bounties of life and also enjoy life.

A similar example can be given from the life of Husain, son of Ali. (I can give innumerable examples to prove that the Devata referred to as Agnideva in Vedas took birth in human form and was named Husain). By that time Muawiya’s son Yazid had gained control over the entire Muslim world. Islamic teachings of Prophet Mohammad were being trampled by Yazid openly, even though he ruled in the name of Islam. People were being butchered to death, territories were being annexed and Yazid indulged in all kinds of vices, so much so that he didn’t spared his dead father’s wife (who was like mother to him) and his step sister, he indulged in gambling, drinking and all other vices. Yazid wanted Prophet’s grandson and Ali’s son Husain to pay obeisance to him and acknowledge that he was the caliph of Islam. Husain refused and left Medina. He went to Makhah to perform Hajj and when he found that Yazid’s soldiers were present in plainclothes there as well and were looking for an opportunity to kill him in Makhah itself, he left Makhah and proceed towards Kufa. Husain was accompanied by his family members and few of his friends and had sufficient supplies of water and food with them. On the way, he was stopped by a battalion of Yazid’s army, which had 1000 soldiers. The battalion had travelled from a great distance without water in order to reach Husain and stop him from advancing further. The soldiers as well as the horses were dying of thirst. They had come to stop Husain but were themselves at the verge of being killed because of lack of water. Husain could have easily asked his relatives and friends to attack and kill them. Despite being the enemies who had come with no other purpose but to stop Husain’s companions from going further, Husain asked his companions to give water to all of them until their thirst was quenched. Even the horses were fed water. Some of them were in such worse situation that they were unable to drink water. Husain himself helped them drink water. 1000 soldiers and their horses were fed with water. Once their thirst was quenched, the commander of the battalion told Husain that he had been sent with an order to stop Husain and his companions from moving further. They forced Husain to set camps there itself. Later, more and more of Yazid’s forces arrived. Various accounts say the number ranged from 30000 to 2 lakh. Husain had about 150 companions. Yazid’s forces laid siege on the river and denied water to Husain and his companions. Even the 6-month old son of Husain was denied water. All the male companions of Husain were killed barbarically after 3 days of thirst.

Let us see the third and last example. Ali (Shiv of the Vedas) was fighting an enemy – who was known for his bravery and strength – in the battle of Khandaq (trench). The enemy was so famous for his valour and fighting skills that none from Prophet Mohammad’s camp had agreed to go to fight him. Only Ali agreed to fight. Great one-to-one fight ensued. During the fight, there came a situation when Ali had overpowered his opponent and was about to kill him when the opponent spat on Ali’s face. Normally, if this happens to a soldier, he would kill his opponent in a fit of rage. But Ali got down from the opponent’s chest and started walking to and fro. This gave the opponent a chance to get up and fight began once again. A little later, Ali again overpowered his opponent and killed him. Later, people asked Ali the reason for his action. He said he was fighting his opponent for a cause and it was he who had waged an attack. When the opponent spat, Ali got angry and he didn’t want to act in a fit of rage. Therefore he left him and gave him another chance to get up and fight.

In some of the wars that were forced on Ali, when the opponents were about to be killed, it had become a custom among them that they would disrobe and become naked. Even if they were the worst of enemies, Ali would spare them. He would not look at the naked person and turn his back. He never killed a person who was without arms and even if somebody had come to fight him, he never was the first attacker. If you have read the Gita thoroughly, you will know the reason for Ali’s acts. Gita has described in length the traits of a Purushottam and all Ahlulbayt totally fit the caricature of Purushottam described in Gita.

I am sure you have realized that a non-believer, even in an Islamic state, has all the rights to live and lead a decent life. Even if he is an idol-worshipper, that is his personal choice, and the state has no right whatsoever to force him to quit worshipping the idols. [When I tell the Islamic rulings, giving examples from the lives of Ahlulbayt, it doesn’t mean all Muslim rulers act as per the teachings of Islam. In fact, I am proving in my writings again and again that the militant Islam that was portrayed by Umayyad and Abbasid rulers in the name of Islam had nothing to do with the spiritual Islam preached by the Ahlulbayt]

Now we come to the second part of your question, regarding why Quran has severally critized idol-worship. You have asked why a non-believer will be denied paradise just because he worshipped an idol. You also said “if that is truly the concept in Quran then I’m extremely sorry to say, I do not agree with such a discrimination against Hindus.”

This is an important question. We will have to answer your question in stages.

First, Quran has not talked about the Hindus. Quran has talked about idol-worship as a sin. Can you show from any of the so-called Hindu scriptures viz. Veda, Gita and Upanishads that idol-worship is allowed? Sanatan dharm never sanctioned idol worship. If today you have even made idols of Sai Baba, there is no sanction of it in divine books.

But you may ask even if idol-worship is not sanctioned in the divine scriptures in which the Hindus believe in, why Quran shows such great displeasure at those who worship the idols? Let me say that Quran indeed critizes idol-worship but that is the personal belief of the idol-worshipper and the Muslims have no right to critize idol-worshippers, or ridicule them, punish or kill them.

But the question still remains: why is Quran so much against idol-worship that it clearly says they will have no place in heaven? To get the answer, we must understand the Divine Creation Plan once again. And remember, I am giving this creation plan from Hindu scriptures and not from Muslim scriptures.

Absolute, All-Pervading Non-Visible God viz. Mahesh or Ishwar desired that He creates and He created a Manifest Self. This Manifest Self was a Manifest Power created by God. Since It was the foremost creation, It had all the attributes and qualities of Gods. It has been called Vishnu or the Face of God (as per Quran). It has also been called Paramatma. Quran has called it Rooh and Jew and Christian scriptures have called it Holy Spirit. All mean one and the same. The Manifest Self started worshiping the Creator immediately after it was created. It worshipped extensively. Upanishad says the Manifest Self desired that there be more worshippers and God gave it the permission to create. The first Noor or Light was created when there was no light. That Noor led to the creation of 14 Manus or the 14 Devatas. They later became the progenitors of mankind. But perhaps it was the Divine Will that another power Zulmat or Tamas got created. This was the preparation that was being made for the creation of man. Man was not to be the angels, who are very much like Divine Robots and who do whatever has been asked from them to do. If they have been assigned some function, they continue doing it. But man was to be different. He was being born to give a test. He was being given a mind of his own and he was being given the choice to choose between right and wrong, truth and untruth. The purpose of creation of Noor was to guide man to the path of worship of God while the purpose of creation of Zulmat was to misguide. Both Noor and Zulmat are acting inside us and also from outside. Paramatma sent scriptures to man to guide him towards the desired path. All this while, Zulmat or Tamas was working extensively so that man does not identify Noor or Devatas. The Devatas too kept guiding. Prophets were chosen. But the Zulmat kept deviating the man. This continued. At times one or the other Devata descended in human body as avatar. Zulmat rallied its forces so that the teachings of avatars were corrupted. At times Prophets and Avatars were killed. Finally, all the Devatas who constitute the Manifest Self or Holy Spirit descended one after another at a sacred place in Arabia to guide mankind towards the path of worship of God.

 If you remember from where it all began, Manifest Self had worshipped Ishwar (God) extensively and had desired there be more worshippers. It was only then that God had allowed further creation. The purpose of our creation is to worship Ishwar – the One God of the Universe. Muslims call that One God as Allah.

 Worship of One God had always been the chief goal of Devatas (who descended one after another at Arabia and were called Ahlulbayt). This indeed is the purpose of our creation. Krishna was not fighting the Kauravas for the throne of Hastinapura. The reason for the fight was that the people of the time had started worshipping the Devatas of Vedas. They had also started worshipping others, including demons and rakshasa. Krishna told them that none but God has to be worshipped. They didn’t agree and came to fight Krishna himself. Those who believe that it was a worldly war are on the wrong. Mahabharat was a religious war where the Kauravas (aided by great number of Brahmins and revered priests) were worshipping those other than God and were worshipping those who were actually God’s creatures whereas Krishna wanted that worship of God should be restored. Pandavas too at a time worshipped the deities that the Kauravas worshipped. That is why Arjuna says that there was a time when he used to make fun of Krishna (Krishna’s teachings). And that is why Krishna had to show the image to Arjuna of Paramatma devouring all those who were being worshiped by the Kauravas. Even Devatas were devoured. But Krishna knew that Devatas were part of the Creation Plan and they comprised the guiding forces. Therefore, he kept their value and sanctity. He said anyone who eats without offering part of his food to the Devatas is a thief. He talked of Indra’s heaven and of Brihaspati. But he also said that Devatas are not to be worshipped. Neither is anybody else to be worshipped other than God or His Manifest Form – the Paramatma.

Did you see? Krishna was the first who fought the idol-worshippers. Krishna it was who said with force that worship has to done only of God or His Manifest Self. He even told Arjuna to fight and kill those on the opposite side, without caring for the fact that there were his relatives, cousins and revered Gurus. He told Arjuna that it doesn’t matter whether he killed or got killed. This proves that it was a religious war. You don’t get killed and occupy the throne of Hastinapura. Krishna said that those in the opposite camps were already dead (because they were disbelievers) and if Arjuna was to kill them, he would only perform a ritual. Their spirit had already reached the nadir from where there could be no coming back. Quran says that there is a level of decline from which the spirit becomes incapable of reaching higher level. Quran calls such people already dead and says they are deaf, dumb and blind and no guidance can reach them. Gita too calls such people already dead. If such was the level of their spirit, then Arjuna merely performed a ritual by cutting off their bodies from the face of this world.

Did you see, Krishna made such a vicious attack on those who worshipped anybody else but God that he didn’t care for his own life or the life of his companions? It is a pity that we again got misled by Zulmat and began to worship idols of Krishna himself. The express purpose of our creation is clear. We are to worship none but the One God of the Universe. It is this reason that the Manifest Self had given when it was allowed creation of mankind. And when I am proving time and again that the Devatas, whose purpose is to guide mankind towards the path of worship, descended themselves in human form and were called Ahlulbayt, you can yourself imagine why Quran - the book that was revealed to Mohammad, the first of the Ahlulbayt and who is none but Indradeva of the Vedas – outrightly rejected idol worship.

[PS: While talking about the Divine Creation Plan, several facts that I have reached upon after years of my study have been told. It is possible some of you may have some doubts about any of the points given by me. If you have those doubts, feel free to ask and I will respond with the reason for my views from the scriptures themselves.]

Saturday 20 June 2015

योग दिवस और हम

आज देश भर में योग दिवस मनाया जा रहा है। 30000 लोग तो सिर्फ दिल्ली में एक साथ योग करेंगे। क्हा जा रहा है कि योग का किसी धर्म से कोई सम्बंध नहीं। यह तो प्राचीन युग से चली आ रही व्यायाम की एक कला है। आईए देखें योग क्या है और योग का सनातन धर्म से क्या सम्बंध है।

गीता में योग का शब्द बार बार प्रयोग हुआ है। पर गीता के योग में और हम जो योग करने जा रहे हैं उस में बड़ा अन्तर है। गीता में योग हर उस क्रिया को कहते हैं जो आत्मा को उस मार्ग पर डाल दे जो उसको परमात्मा तक ले जाता हो। इस प्रकार गीता के अनुसार ईश्वर के प्रेम में या उसको याद करके रोना भी योग है, बार बार ईश्वर का नाम जपना भी योग है, ईश्वर के नाम पर कुछ कार्य करना भी कर्मयोग है। गीता का योग मानें तो नमाज के माध्यम से ईश्वर को याद करना भी योग होगा। जिस प्रकार मुसलमानों में पांच बार नमाज पढ़के ईश्वर को याद करने की प्रथा मौजूद है उसी प्रकार सनातन धर्म में भी दिन में पांच बार ईश्वर को याद करने की प्रथा मौजूद दी जो धीरे धीरे लुप्त हो गई।

यदि यह योग है तो मुसलमानों को योग करने में क्या आपत्ति हो सकती है क्योंकि हर मुसलमान का फर्ज है कि वह अपने कामों में ईश्वर यानी अल्लाह को याद रखे।

परन्तु कोई भी एक खुदा को मानने वाला किसी गैर खुदा के आगे कैसे सिर झुका सकता है। अस्ल मुद्दा यह है कि वेद और गीता में भी एक खुदा की ही बात हो रही है परन्तु उन किताबों के मानने वाले अपनी ही किताबों की समझ खो बैठे हैं। शिव कौन हैं, विष्णू कौन हैं, इन्द्र कौन हैं, अग्निदेव ओर वासुदेव कौन हैं, उनको जरा भी समझ नहीं रही और केवल प्रचलित कहानियों पर विश्वास किए पड़े हैं जब्कि यह कहानियां कई बार इन देवी देवताओं को उपहासमय स्थिति में प्रस्तुत करती हैं। वह इन देवताओं में से कुछ को भगवान कहते हैं और भगवान कहने के बावजूद उनके लिए ऐसी ऐसी गाथाएं बना रखी हैं जो उनको भगवान भी नहीं रहने देतीं। अपनी किताबों में एक ईश्वर का विस्तार पूर्वक विवरण होने के बावजूद अगर हिन्दू उस ईश्वर के स्थान पर दूसरों को भगवान का दर्जा दे दें और फिर चाहें कि सब लोग उनके नाम पर सिर झुकाएं तो यह कैसे हो सकता है? यही कारण है कि मौहम्मद अलवी वेद, उपनिषद और गीता में विश्वास रखता है क्योंकि यह आसमानी किताबें हर समय एक ईश्वर या उस ईश्वर द्वारा ही पैदा किए गए परमात्मा और देवताओं की बात कर रही हैं जिनका इस सृष्टि को चलाने में बड़ा रोल है। परन्तु उन्हीं किताबों की आधी अधूरी समझ से यदि कोई देवताओं को भगवान का दर्जा दे दे और कहे कि वेद को मानो तो फिर मौहम्मद अलवी को कहना पड़ेगा कि जिस वेद को मैं ईश्वर की ओर से भेजी गई किताब मानता हूं आप जो कुछ कह रहे हैं वह उस वेद की शिक्षा से भिन्न है। \

अफसोस इस बात का है कि वेद को बढ़ावा देने की बात हो रही है, गीता को स्कूलों में पढ़ाने की बात हो रही है परन्तु जो यह प्रचार कर रहे हैं उन्हें स्वयं नहीं पता कि वेद और गीता में क्या क्या तथ्य छिपे हुए हैं। अब तो समय ऐसा आ गया है कि हमको इच्छा भी नहीं कि जानें कि जिन किताबों को हम आसमानी किताबें मान रहे हैं और जिन का नाम हम रोजाना लेते हैं, उनमें क्या लिखा है? और क्या उन किताबों में दिए गए संदेश को अपने जीवन में उतारने के अतिरिक्त उनको मानने से कोई लाभ होने वाला है?

कल की मेरी पोस्ट में आप ने ऋग वेद के एक भजन से देखा कि मारूत अर्थात शिव ने मानव शरीर में धरती पर जन्म लिया तो अली कहलाए। कल की मेरी पोस्ट को पढ़ें और समझें कि हमारी वेदों की समझ कितनी अधूरी है। जिस प्रकार शिव ने मानव शरीर में जन्म लिया तो अली कहलाए, उसी प्रकार देवी फातमा कहलाईं और अश्विन अर्थात पार्वती के दो पुत्र हसनैन कहलाए। हसनैन अर्थात हसन और हुसैन। हुसैन जिन्हें करबला में अधर्मी लोगों ने शहीद किया उनको वेद ने अग्निदेव कहा है। ईश्वर की राह में कुरबानी देने को अरबी में आबे कौसर पीना कहा गया है। उसी को वेदों ने सोमरस पीना बताया परन्तु यह न समझ पाने के कारण वेदों को पढ़ने वाले समझते रहें कि स्वर्ग के किसी पेय की बात हो रही है। सोमरस यकीनन स्वर्ग का पेय है और आबे कौसर भी जन्नत के चश्मे के पानी को कहते हैं परन्तु वेद ने जब सोमरस पीने की बात की तो उसका अर्थ ईश्वर की राह में शहीद हो जाना है। तमाम देवताओं का नूर मानवता की पैदाईश से बहुत पहले पैदा किया गया, एक नूर दो में विभाजित हुआ और फिर दो में से एक का हिस्सा दूसरे से मिला तो हिरण्यगर्भ बना और उनमें से दो और नूर निकले और फिर 9 और इनको परमात्मा ने सृष्टि के 14 भागों का हाकिम बना दिया। एक नूर से 14 नूर हो गये और यह 14 उस पहले के एकदम समान थे जिससे विभाजन हुआ था। यह सब तो वेद और उपनिषद में लिखा है। पैगम्बर मौहम्मद ने भी कहा कि मेरा नूर आदम की पैदाईश से बहुत पहले पैदा हुआ, एक नूर दो में बटा तो अली और मौहम्मद का नूर हुए, फिर मौहम्मद के नूर से नूरे फातिमा पैदा हुआ और अली और फातिमा के मिलन से 2 और फिर 9 और अहलेबैत पैदा हुए तो कुल 14 अहलेबैत हो गये जिनके बारे में मौहम्मद ने क्हा कि सबएक समान हैं अर्थात सब का नूर एक समान है और सबका मकसद भी एक ही है।

यदि वेदों की सही समझ के साथ मुसलमानों को आमंत्रित किया जाए तो मुझे नहीं लगता कि किसी भी मुसलमान को आपत्ति होनी चाहिए क्योंकि वेद तो सब कुछ वही कह रहे हैं जो पैगम्बर मौहम्मद ने बताया और कुरान और वेद की शिक्षा में जरा भी अन्तर नहीं है। यही बात योग पर भी लागू होती है। यदि योग को उस मायनी में बताया जाए जिस मायनी में गीता ने बताया तो फिर क्यों किसी को आपत्ति होगी। परन्तु कोई कहे कि सूर्य देव वेदानुसार देवता हैं और हमको उनके आगे सिर झुकाना है तो कोई क्यों कर तैयार हो जाएगा। हकीकत तो यह है कि सूर्य देव के आगे सिर झुकाने वालों को पता ही नहीं कि सूर्य देव कौन हैं, क्या केवल आसमान में दमकते सूर्य को ही सूर्य देव कहा गया है या किसी और देवता को, उस देवता का इस सृष्टि में क्या रोल है और इस समय कहां विराजमान हैं? उनका परमात्मा से क्या रिश्ता है, हम से क्या रिश्ता है और ईश्वर से क्या रिश्ता है? स्वयं उत्तर न होने के बावजूद हम चाहते हैं कि तमाम भारत वह माने जो हम मानते हैं। सच तो यह है कि जिस दिन वेदों की सही समझ हमें हो गई, बाकी भारत को भी उन को मान लेने में कोई आपत्ति नहीं होगी क्योंकि कुरान तो स्वयं हर उस किताब पर यकीन रखने और उसे कुरान के बराबर मानने की बात कर रहा है जिसको ईश्वर की ओर से विश्व के किसी न किसी भाग में भेजा गया। मौहम्मद अलवी को तो इसमें कोई शक नहीं कि वेद आसमानी किताबें हैं और ऐसे ऐसे राज छिपाए हैं कि यदि हम जान जाएं तो हमारी जिन्दगी ही बदल जाए। मुसलमानों को भी चाहिए कि वेदों को पढ़ें और उन में छिपे राजों को जानने की कोशिश करें क्योंकि वेदों के माध्यम से ईश्वर ने वह वह राज हमको दिए कि यदि हम जान जाएं तो हममें कुरान की भी बेहतर समझ पैदा होगी।

जैसा मैंने कहा योग उन कार्यों को कहते हैं जो आत्मा को परमात्मा के समीप करें। यह गीता का योग है। परन्तु पतंजली ने योग को एक व्यायाम में बदल दिया जो न केवल शरीर को बेहतर बनाने का काम करता है बल्कि स्वस्थ शरीर में आत्मा को भी उत्थान देता है कि वह परमात्मा के करीब होने लाएक बन सके। खेद का विषय यह है कि आज हम ने वेदों को केवल शारीरिक व्यायाम ही समझ लिया जो वह नहीं है। शरीर सेहतमंद होना आवश्क है परन्तु यदि वह शरीर रावण या कौरव के साथ खड़ा दिखे तो ऐसे स्वस्थ शरीर से क्या लाभ? आत्मा का उत्थान होगा तो हमारे अन्दर अच्छाईयां बढेंगी और बुराईयां कम होंगी। आत्मा का उत्थान जब ही होगा जब वह परमात्मा के करीब होगी। और इसके लिए आवश्यक है कि हम अपने काम ईश्वर की याद को बनाए रखते हुए करें। जब ऐसा होगा तो हममें वह सब अच्छाईयां पैदा होंगी जिनकी गीता ने बात की है।

यदि केवल शारिरिक व्यायाम करके शरीर को स्वस्थ कर लिया और आत्मा को परमात्मा से जोड़ने के लिए कुछ नहीं किया तो हो सकता है कि आने वाले समय के कृष्ण अर्जुन से कहें कि यह व्यक्ति मरे हुए के समान है और इस शरीर से आत्मा को अलग कर दो।

आज होने वाले योग उत्सव में से सूर्य नमस्कार निकाल दिया गया है। योग का जो कार्यक्रम बनाना गया है उसके अनुसार सब से पहले एक मंत्र पढ़ा जाएगा और फिर व्यायाम प्रारंभ होगा। जो मंत्र पढ़ा जाएगा वह यह हैः

समगच्छादवम समवादाधवम सम वो मनमसी जनतम देव भागम यथा पूवे संजानना उपासते

इस मंत्र का अंग्रेजी में जो अर्थ बताया गया है वह यह हैः

May you move in harmony; may you speak in unison; let our mind be equanimous like in the beginning; let the divinity manifest in your sacred endeavours

ऐसा बताया जा रहा है कि इस मंत्र में योग करने वालों के साथ साथ लयबद्व तरीके से चलने, साथ साथ बोलने, और मस्तिश्क को एक मार्ग पर लगाने की बात हो रही है ताकि हमारे कार्यों में देवता शामिल हो जाएं।

यदि यह मंत्र पढ़ा जाना है जिसमें देवता का भी उल्लेख है तो फिर क्यों कहा जा रहा है कि योग का किसी धर्म से कोई सम्बंध नहीं? हकीकत तो यह है कि यह मंत्र पढ़ने वालों में अधिकांश लोगों को पता ही नहीं कि वे क्या पढ़ रहे हैं और उसका क्या महत्व है?

आईए देखें कि ऋगवेद के दसवें मंडल के 191,2,3,4 मंत्र में क्या कहा जा रहा है।

सं.समिद युवसे वर्षन्नग्ने विश्वान्यर्य आ द्य
इळस पदेसमिध्यसे स नो वसून्या भर द्यद्य
सं गछध्वं सं वदध्वं सं वो मनांसि जानताम द्य
देवा भागं यथा पूर्वे संजानाना उपासते द्यद्य
समानो मन्त्रः समितिः समानी समानं मनः सह चित्तमेषाम द्य
समानं मन्त्रमभि मण्त्रये वः समानेन वोहविषा जुहोमि द्यद्य
समानी व आकूतिः समाना हर्दयानि वः द्य
समानमस्तु वोमनो यथा वः सुसहासति द्यद्य

यह मंत्र अग्नि देव को समर्पित है। क्या बात हो रही है यह न समझ पाने के कारण अनुवादकों ने इसको हम से जोड़ने की कोशिश की है जब्कि हकीकत यह है कि यह मंत्र भी इशारा कर रहा है कि सारे देवता एक समान हैं और उनमें कोई भिन्नता नहीं है। सब की खिलकत भी एक है और सब का मकसद भी एक है। एक नूर से विभाजित हुए 14 नूर के मानव शरीर में इस धरती पर अवतरित होने की बात हो रही है। मेरी कल की पोस्ट आप ने पढ़ी होगी तो आपने देखा होगा कि कैसे देवताओं का नूर फिर से धरती पर जन्म लेगा जैसे बच्चे जन्म लेते हैं।

यदि आप संस्कृत जानते हैं तो स्वयं अनुवाद कीजिए और नहीं जानते तो किसी संस्कृत के जानकार से इस भजन का अनुवाद करवाईए। पहले ही मंत्र का जो अनुवाद होता है वह यह हैः

As young Agnidev who shines with light (made of noor) comes to the universe with others

बात हो रही है जब्कि जिस समय अग्निदेव का नूर मानव शरीर में पृथ्वी पर छोटे बच्चे के रूप में जन्म लेगा और वह नूर हमारे बीच चमकेगा। सब के सब देवता एक के बाद एक धरती पर आएंगे और एक ही स्थान पर आएंगे। वह एक ही बात बोलेंगे, उनका दिमाग एक ही मार्ग पर चलेगा और उन सब का एक ही मकसद अर्थात उद्देश्य होगा। जिस जगह वे अवतरित होंगे वह जगह एक, उनका मकसद एक और उनकी सोच एक।
यही बात पैगम्बर मौहम्मद ने की जब उन्होंने क्हा कि हमारा नूर आदम की खिलकत से हजारों वर्ष पूर्व पैदा हुआ था, वह नूर विभाजित हुआ तो अंत में 14 नूर बने, इनमें से पहला भी मौहम्मद है, आखिरी भी मौहम्मद है, बीच का भी मौहम्मद है, सब के सब मौहम्मद हैं।

अर्थात यह कि नूरानी हस्तियां जिनको दिव्य अर्थात नूर से बने होने के कारण वेदों ने देवता क्हा जब मानव शरीर में आए और अहलेबैत कहलाए तो उन सब का काम करने का ढंग, कथन, उद्देश्य एक ही था। अहलेबैत की जीवनी पढि़ए तो आप जानेंगे कि कैसे यह केवल ईश्वर की इबादत और उस तक पहुंचने के मार्ग को प्रजवलित करने के लिए अपनी तमाम जिन्दगी कोशिश करते रहे। नूरानी हस्तियां मानव शरीर में धरती पर आईं तो जुलमत ने सारी ताकतें लगा दीं कि वे ईश्वर तक पहुंचने के मार्ग को प्रजवलित करने अर्थात मोक्ष के मार्ग को दिखा पाने में कामयाब न हो पाएं। ऐसा उसने इसलिए किया कि नूर के मार्ग पर मानवता के आ जाने से ही जुलमत अर्थात तमस की हार है। अग्नि देव को अपने मित्रों और परिवार जनों के साथ ऐसी क्रूरता से शहीद किया गया कि आज तक इतनी क्रूरता और बरबरता से किसी दूसरे व्यक्ति को नहीं मारा गया होगा। जब जब नूर ने मार्ग प्रजवलित करने की कोशिश की है, जुलमत ने अपनी तमाम ताकतें उस मार्ग से हमको बहकाने के लिए लगा दी हैं। उस मार्ग को पहचान लेने और उसपर चलकर ईश्वर से जुड़ जाने का नाम ही योग है।

Friday 19 June 2015

कुछ लोग कहते हैं मौहम्मद अलवी कमीना है

बात शिव की हो रही थी। मौहम्मद अलवी ने कहा कि शिव महादेव हैं जो देवों में भी आदर्णीय हैं और शिव आखिरी बार मानव शरीर में अवतरित हुए तो अरब के काबा में पैदा हुए और अली कहलाए। यह बात मौहम्मद अलवी ने कही तो कुछ लोग बहुत नाराज हो गए और मौहम्मद अलवी को bastard यानी कमीना तक कह डाला। पर मौहम्मद अलवी जो कुछ कहता है उसको किताबों से साबित भी करता है।

हिमा अग्नि का कहना है कि शिव अयोणिज्य हैं और कभी भी स्त्री की कोख से पैदा नहीं हुए। उनका कहना है कि शिव समय से परे है और कभी भी पैदा नहीं हुए और न अवतरित हुए। वह यह भी कहते हैं कि केवल विष्णू ही अवतरित होते हैं और शिव कभी नहीं हुए। उनका यह भी कहना है कि वे किसी मुस्लिम से इस विषय पर बातचीत करने को तैयार नहीं। मौहम्मद अलवी ने कहा कि यदि वे समझना चाहते हैं तो वेद, उपनिषद, गीता और पुराण से बातचीत करें पर उन्होंने बातचीत करने से मना कह दिया। हां मौहम्मद अलवी को तीन बार कमीना अवश्य कह डाला। हालांकि बाद में उन्होंने अपने शब्द वापिस भी ले लिए।

इस लेख के अंत में हम हिमा अग्नि, सुभास बोस और नागेन्द्र सैट्टी से हुई पूरी बातचीत लिख रहें हैं। परन्तु पहले वेद से ही देखिए कि क्या शिव कभी मानव शरीर में अवतरित हुए कि नहीं?

शिव को महादेव कहा जाता है। इसका अर्थ है कि शिव देवों में सबसे शीर्ष स्थान रखते हैं। ‘देव’ का मूल शब्द ‘दिव्य’ अर्थात नूर है। इसका अर्थ यह है कि शिव नूर से बने हैं और तमाम देवों में शिव को खास मकाम हासिल है। शिव को रूद्र और मारूत भी कहा जाता है हालांकि वेदानुसार रूद्र और मारूत एक से अधिक हैं। पैगम्बर मौहम्मद अपनी जिन्दगी में बार बार कहते रहे कि जब पहला मनुष्य बना तो उस समय भी उनका नूर बनाया जा चुका था। वह यह भी कहते रहे कि अली और वह एक ही नूर के दो टुकड़े हैं। और उन्होंने कहा कि नूर से नूर पैदा हुआ और तमाम नूर एक समान हैं। कुरान बार बार इस नूर की बात करता है और नूर के विपरीत जुलमत अर्थात तमस का शब्द प्रयोग करता है जिसका अर्थ है शैतानी ताकतें अर्थात गुमराह करने वाली ताकतें। इसका अर्थ यह हुआ कि नूर की खिलकत का मकसद मानवता को ईश्वर का मार्ग दिखाना है और आत्मा को परमात्मा तक ले जाना है जब्कि जुलमत की पैदाईश का मकसद मानवता को गुमराह करना है। नूर के रास्ते पर मोक्ष है। यही कारण है कि जुलमत की सबसे बड़ी दुश्मन यह नूरानी ताकतें हैं। इसी का उल्लेख वेदों ने किया तो सही अर्थ न समझ पाने के कारण लोगों ने यह मतलब निकाले कि किसी पुरातन काल में देवताओं और असुरों में भीषण लड़ाईयां हुईं थीं। अनेक कहानियां देवताओं और असुरों की लड़ाई की लोगों में आम हो गईं जो आज भी टीवी पर धारावाहिकों में देखी जा सकती हैं। अफसोस की बात है कि जहां गीता कह रही है कि जिसने देवताओं को अर्पित किए बिना खाना खाया वह चोर है हम तो उनको पहचानते भी नहीं हैं खाना क्या अर्पित करेंगे। वेद कहते हैं कि देवता हमारी इंद्रियों के शासक हैं और हम न तो जानते हैं कि देवता कौन हैं और न ही जानने की चिंता करते हैं। ब्रहद अराण्यका, पिंगल, मैत्रीय यहां तक कि हर उपनिषद देवताओं के रोल को समझा रहे हैं परन्तु हम जानने की चिंता ही नहीं करते कि देवता कौन हैं और उनका हमसे और ईश्वर से क्या सम्बंध है। समूचे वेद केवल देवताओं को ही पहचनवाने का काम कर रहे हैं परन्तु हमारी जिन्दगी में देवताओं का न तो कोई महत्व है और न उनकी समझ है।

जैसा मैंने कहा, वेद देवताओं के उल्लेख से भरे पड़े हैं। तमाम वेदों को छोड़ हम केवल ऋगवेद दो भजनों को पेश कर रहे हैं जो सबूत है कि देवताओं को आने वाले समय में अवतरित होना था। जब यह देवता मानव शरीर में आए तो अहलेबैत कहलाए। अहलेबैत का अर्थ है ‘घर के लोग’ और चूंकि मक्का में स्थित काबा को बैतुल्लाह यानी ‘ईश्वर का घर’ कह कर सम्बोधित किया जा चुका था, यह अहलेबैत ‘ईश्वर के घर लोग’ हुए। स्वर्ग में वास करने वाले देवताओं का नूर जो आदम यानी पहले मनु की पैदाईश से पहले पैदा हुआ था एक के बाद एक मानव शरीर में अवतरित हुआ तो अहलेबैत अर्थात ‘ईश्वर के घर के लोग’ कहलाए। अली जो अहलेबैत में इमामों के इमाम हैं और फातिमा के पति हैं और जिन्होंने चमत्कारिक रूप से काबा के अन्दर जन्म लिया वह ही मारूत में सबसे श्रेष्ठ, रूद्रों में अग्रणी और देवों के देव हैं। आईए देखें कि क्या ऋगवेद की पहली पुस्तक का पांचवा और छठा भजन इंद्र देव और मारूत का फिर से मानव शरीर में पैदा होने की बात कर रहा है कि नहीं।

मंत्र 5 इंद्र देव तो समर्पित है। परन्तु ऐसा नहीं है कि इस में केवल इंद्र देव की ही बात हो रही है। मंत्र के प्रारम्भ में ही वायु देव की भी बात हो रही है जो कोई और नहीं बल्कि शिव ही हैं। आम तौर पर हिन्दु वायु देव और शिव को अलग अलग मानते हैं परन्तु मैं यह साबित कर सकता हूं कि यह दोनों एक ही हैं। इस मंत्र में वेद वायु और इंद्र देव को एक समान बताता है जिससे कई लोग यह निष्कर्श निकालते हैं कि वायु और इंद्र एक ही हैं परन्तु दरअस्ल यहां पर दोनों को एक नहीं बताया जा रहा बल्कि बिलकुल एक समान कहा जा रहा है। मौहम्मद ने कहा कि अली और मैं एक ही नूर के दो टुकड़े हैं और विभिन्न उपनिषद हमें बताते हैं कि कैसे परमात्मा का एक नूर दो नूर में विभाजित हुआ जो पहले नूर, जिससे विभाजन हुआ, के एकदम समान थे। शतपथ ब्राहमण भी यही कहता दिखाई देता है।

Shatapath Brahmana 4.1.3.19 says:
One who is Vayu is Indra and Indra is Vayu.

हम जो बात नहीं समझ पाए वह यह कि यहां पर दोनों देवताओं के एक समान रोल की बात हो रही है ठीक वैसे ही जैसे मौहम्मद ने 14 के 14 नूर को एक समान बताने के लिए कहा कि हम में से पहला मौहम्मद है, आखिरी मौहम्मद है, बीच का मौहम्मद है, सब के सब मौहम्मद हैं।

इस भजन का दूसरा मंत्र बताता है कि देवता अदालत करता है और कुकर्मियों को सजा देता है, पृथ्वी से लेकर स्वर्ग तक हर किसी का आका है और अच्छे लोगों को विभिन्न प्रकार से पुरस्कृत करता है। मंत्र 4 में बताया जाता है कि हमको इंद्र की उपासना करना चाहिए जिसकी ताकत और शक्ति सारी सृष्टि में काम कर रही है। सबसे रोचक बात यह है कि हदीसे किसा में जिसको मुसलमान पढ़ा करते हैं परमात्मा कहता है कि यह चंद्रमा, यह सितारे, यह सूर्य, यह धरती सब कुछ उसने इन्हीं अहलेबैत के कारण बनाए गए। अली के कई वक्तव्य बताते हैं कि पृथ्वी से लेकर आकाश का उनका क्या रोल है और यह अहलेबैत स्वर्ग में भी वास करते रहे हैं।
बात क्या हो रही है इसको न समझ पाने के कारण ऋषि दयानंद सरस्वती कहते हैं कि इस मंत्र में और अनेक दूसरे मंत्रों में ईश्वर अपनी बहुत ही छोटी कृति सूर्य की बार बार प्रशंसा कर रहा है। परन्तु ऐसा नहीं है। जिस प्रकार वायु देव का अर्थ हवा नहीं, उसी प्रकार अग्नि देव का अर्थ सूर्य या आग नहीं। अग्नि देव वह देवता हैं जिनके बारे में ऋगवेद की पहली पुस्तक के चैथे भजन के 8वें मंत्र में कहा जा रहा है कि हम को उस बहादुर, सत्यवान और धार्मिक व्यक्ति की सहायता करना चाहिए जो अधर्मी दुश्मनों से लड़ाई लड़ रहा है। इस मंत्र में उस समय के लोग प्रार्थना कर रहे हैं कि वे अधर्मियों के खिलाफ अग्नि देव और उनके साथियों की लड़ाई में उनके साथ अडिग और साबितकदम रहें और इन सच्चे बहादुरों का अधर्मियों के खिलाफ लड़ाई में साथ दें। चारों वेदों में सबसे अधिक अग्निदेव का उल्लेख है। इन उल्लेखों को पढ़कर हमने निष्कर्श निकाला है कि अग्निदेव कोई और नहीं बल्कि अली और फातिमा के पुत्र हुसैन हैं जिनको अधर्मियों ने करबला की लड़ाई में बरबरतापूर्वक शहीद कर दिया।

भजन 5 का मंत्र 6 से 9 बताता है कि हालांकि यह देवतागण इतने ताकतवर हैं और उनकी ताकत तमाम सृष्टि को संचालित करती है, उनका ज्ञान केवल अकलमंदों को ही हो पाता है। इसका अर्थ है कि देवताओं की समझ हर किसी के बस से बाहर है। यह भी कहा जाता है कि जिस व्यक्ति को इनकी पहचान हो जाती है वही सबसे बेहतरीन व्यक्ति हो जाता है और तमाम बेहतरी उसमें आ जाती है। जैसे मैं ने पहले कहा कि जुलमत अर्थात तमस की गुमराह करने वाली शक्ति कभी भी नहीं चाहती कि हमको नूर की समझ पैदा हो और इस लिए वह हमको गुमराह करने में लगी रहती है।

इस भजन के मंत्र 6, 7 और 9 में सोमरस की बात हुई है। लोग आज तक समझ नहीं पाए कि सोमरस क्या है। कुछ लोग कहते हैं कि सोमरस स्वर्ग का कोई पेय है। यह भी कहा जाता है कि इंद्र हर समय सोमरस पिए रहते थे जिससे कुछ लोग यह निष्कर्श निकालते हैं कि सोमरस कोई शराब है। परन्तु हकीकत यह है कि सोमरस को अरबी में आबे कौसर अर्थात स्वर्ग का पानी के अर्थ में प्रयोग किया गया है परन्तु इसका अर्थ होता है शहादत पेश करना या ईश्वर की राह में शहीद कर दिए जाना। मानव शरीर में देवता आए तो अली, हसन, हुसैन और दूसरों को अधर्मी लोगों ने शहीद कर दिया। इस मायनी में सोमरस का प्रयोग हुआ है। करबला में शहीद होने वालों के लिए भी कहा जाता है कि वे आबे कौसर से सेराब हो गये। बार बार सोमरस शब्द का प्रयोग होने से लोगों ने धारणा बना ली कि इंद्र हर समय सोमरस पिए रहते थे जब्कि हकीकत में वेद उस समय को पहचानवा रहे थे जब इंद्र और दूसरे देवता मानव शरीर में आएंगे और लोग उनको शहीद कर देंगे।

आपको इन देवताओं की हकीकत पता चलेगी जब हम भजन 6 के अर्थ समझेंगे। यह भजन इंद्र और मारूत को समर्पित है जिससे पता चलता है कि इंद्र देव और मारूत का आपस में कोई न कोई रिश्ता है। उपनिषद बताते हैं कि मारूत और वायुदेव और शिव एक ही हैं। कभी कभी 12 के 12 इमामों को मरूत कह कर सम्बोधित किया जाता है और कहा जाता है मरूत 12 हैं जिनमें शिव अर्थात अली शीर्ष पर हैं। यदि आप अब तक दिए गए मेरे तर्क समझ रहें हैं तो आप समझ जाएंगे कि इस भजन में उस समय को पहचनवाया जाएगा जिस समय इंद्र और 12 मारूत मानव शरीर में मौहम्मद और 12 इमाम बन कर अवतरित हुए।

मंत्र 1 बताता है कि यह वह लोग हैं जो हर समय ईश्वर से बातचीत करते हैं अर्थात उससे रिश्ता बनाए रहते हैं। यह रहमदिल और अहिंसा के मानने वाले हैं और हर चेतन और निर्जीव वस्तु के जानकार हैं। अगले मंत्र में अश्विन की बात हो रही है। डिक्शनरी बताती है कि अश्विन दो देवताओं को एक साथ कहते हैं। यह वैसे ही है जैसे अली और फातिमा के दो पुत्रों हसन और हुसैन को हसनैन कहा जाता है। अश्विन का शिव और पार्वती से वही रिश्ता है जो हसनैन का अली और फातिमा से।

प्रोफैसर मैक्स म्यूलर ने इस मंत्र का इस प्रकार अनुवाद किया हैः
They harness to the chariot on each side his (Indra’s) two favourite boys, the brown the bold, who can carry the hero.
(VEDIC HYMNS PART I.P.14).

आप देख रहे हैं कि अश्विन का इंद्र से भी रिश्ता है। यह आप जब तक नहीं समझ सकते जब तक आप मौहम्मद और उनके घर वालों की जिन्दगी को नहीं पढ़ें और देखें कि कैसे मौहम्मद अपने दोनों नातियों हसन और हुसैन को अपने दोनों कंधों पर बिठा कर बाजार में निकलते थे। एक बार किसी ने कह दिया कि वाह कितनी बेहतरीन सवारी है तो मौहम्मद ने क्हा कि यह न कहो बल्कि यह कहो कि क्या बेहतरीन सवार हैं।

मंत्र 3 बताता है कि परमात्मा ने इन दिव्य या नूर से बनी हस्तियों को उस समय पैदा किया जब रौशनी का कोई वुजूद नहीं था और न ही कोई जीव उस समय तक पैदा हुआ था। जिस समय कुछ भी नहीं था उस समय परमात्मा ने ईश्वरीय दिन के प्रारंभ में ही इनको पैदा किया था।

मौहम्मद ने बताया कि मेरा नूर उस समय भी था जब आदम पानी और मिट्टी के बीच थे अर्थात उनको बनाया जा रहा था। अली से किसी ने पूछा कि आदम से पहले क्या था तो बोले आदम, उससे पहले, तो बोले आदम यहां तक कि पूछने वाला पूछता गया और अली हर बार आदम कहते रहे जब तक कि 70 बार नहीं कह चुके और पूछने वाले ने पूछना ही छोड़ दिया। पुराण और उपनिषद बताते हैं कि ईश्वर का एक दिन 1000 बार आदम को जन्म देता है और हमारा आदम इस ईश्वरीय दिन का 994वां आदम हैं। अर्थात अभी 6 बार आदम को और जन्म लेना है और फिर सृष्टि समाप्त हो जाएगी। इसी प्रकार कुरान कहता है कि जब सृष्टि को लपेट लिया जाएगा तो कुछ नहीं बचेगा सिवाय अल्लाह के चेहरे यानी विष्णु के। अहलेबैत का नूर भी सबसे पहले पैदा किया गया था और सब से अंत तक रहेगा। यही बात वेद बता रहे हैं।

इस मंत्र कर अनुवाद प्रोफैसर मैक्स म्यूलर ने इन शब्दों में किया हैः
Thou who createst light where there was no light and form. O men! Where there was no form, hast been born together with the dawns.

और ग्रिफिथ ने इस मंत्र का अनुवाद इन शब्दों में किया हैः
Thou making light where no light was, and form O men, where form was not, wast born together with the Dawn.

याद रहे कि यह मंत्र इंद्र और मारूत को समर्पित है। यह मंत्र इंद्र और मारूत यानी मौहम्मद और 12 इमामों के नूर की पैदाईश की बात करते हुए कह रहा है कि वह सब एक ही समय पर यानी सृष्टि की रचना के समय पैदा किए गए। मैक्स म्यूलर और ग्रिफिथ आदि समझ ही नहीं पाए कि क्या बात हो रही है और किसकी बात हो रही है परन्तु उनका किया अनुवाद स्वयं हमको सत्य के करीब कर देता है।

In the footnote he (Griffith) says: “thou i.e. the sun, O men is perhaps an exclamation expressive of admiration. If Maryah (Men), be taken to mean the Maruts the words thou making, wast born, although in the singular number, may apply to these Gods regarded as one host or Company and born at one birth.”

चैथा मंत्र तो साफ शब्दों में कह रहा है कि मारूत, जिनका जन्म सृष्टि की रचना के समय हुआ था, एक बार फिर मानव शरीर में जन्म लेंगे। जो लोग कहते हैं कि शिव कभी भी मानव शरीर में अवतरित नहीं हुए वह इस मंत्र को ध्यान से पढ़ें और बताएं कि क्या मारूत के मानव शरीर में छोटे बच्चों के रूप में पैदा होने की बात नहीं हो रही? क्या शिव मारूत नहीं?

देखिए मैक्स म्यूलर ने किन शब्दों में इस मंत्र को अनुवादित किया है। फिर कहूंगा कि मैक्स म्यूलर या ग्रिफिथ को कुछ भी नहीं पता कि क्या बात हो रही है परन्तु उनका अनुवाद हमें सच के समीप ले जा रहा है।

The Maruts according to their want assumed again the form of new born babes.
(V.H. PAGE 141)

क्या कोई शक की गुंजाईश रहती है कि वेद मारूत के मानव शरीर में अवतरित होने की बात कर रहे हैं। शब्द ‘again’ बहुत महत्वपूर्ण है क्योंकि मारूत के फिर से पैदा होने की बात हो रही है। पिछले मंत्र में उनके नूरानी अस्तित्व की पैदाईश की बात हो रही थी और अगले मंत्र में कहा जा रहा है कि वे फिर से मानव शरीर में जन्म लेंगे जिस प्रकार छोटे बच्चे जन्म लेते हैं। यानी साफ कहा जा रहा है कि आसमान से जमीन पर चमत्कारिक रूप से नहीं उतर आएंगे बल्कि जिस प्रकार दूसरे बच्चे जन्म लेते हैं उस प्रकार जन्म लेंगे और शिव का नूर भी मानव शरीर में आएगा क्योंकि शिव को भी मारूत कहा जाता है।

पुराण और उपनिषद बार बार बता रहे हैं कि देवता जब मानव शरीर में जन्म लेगें तो वह एक छिपा हुआ स्थान होगा। कुछ जगह उसको ‘secret place’ और कुछ जगह ‘middle region’ अर्थात ‘मध्य स्थान’ कहा गया है। संस्कृत में ‘गुहा’ शब्द का प्रयोग हुआ है जिसका ऋषि दयानंद सरस्वती ने मध्य स्थान और मैक्स म्यूलर ने छिपी हुई जगह या छिपने का स्थान कह कर अनुवाद किया है। परन्तु यह बता दें कि ऋषि दयानंद सरस्वती इस बात पर आतुर थे कि वेद से देवताओं को निकाल फेंके इसलिए उन का अनुवाद संस्कृत के शब्दों से मेल नहीं खाता। देखिए मैक्स म्यूलर का अनुवादः

Thou O Indra, with the Swift Maruts who break through the even strong hold, hast found even in their hiding place the bright ones.
(V.H.P.14).

यदि आप नहीं समझे तो ‘middle region’ वह स्थान था जहां इंद्र और मारूत को इंसानी बच्चों के समान मानव शरीर में जन्म लेना था। आज भी मुसलमान मानते हैं कि काबा वह स्थान है जहां से धरती जमना प्रारंभ हुई थी। YouTube पर आप आज भी ‘Kaaba as the center of the earth’ टाईप करें तो आप को बहुतेरे वीडियो मिल जाएंगे जो बता रहे हैं कि काबा कैसे सारी धरती के मध्य में स्थित है। और आप यह भी जानते हैं कि अरब की धरती को उस समय middle country कहा जाता था और अमरीका की खोज के बाद ही उसको middle east कहा जाने लगा।

आगे चलिए। देखिए कि मंत्र 6 का ग्रिफिथ ने कैसे अनुवाद किया है।
Worshipping even as they list, singers laud him who findeth wealth. The far-renowned, the mighty one.

आने वाले समय में पैदा होने वाली हस्तियों की बात करते हुए वेद कहता है कि वे धरती पर भी ईश्वर की इबादत करते हुए ही आएंगे। जो उनको पहचान लेगा उसने खजाना प्राप्त कर लिया।

अगला मंत्र भी बहुत महत्वपूर्ण है। Secret place की बात करने के बाद, जो कि मध्य स्थान पर होगी जहां इंद्र देव और मारूत जिन को इस सृष्टि के प्रारंभ में नूर के रूप में पैदा किया गया था और जिनको मानव शरीर में पैदा होना था, यह सब बताने के बाद मंत्र 8 में बताया जा रहा है कि उस स्थान का नाम मखः होगा। हालांकि यह सही है कि न ऋषि दयानंद सरस्वती ने और न ग्रिफिथ या मैक्स म्यूलर ने इस मखः को अरब के मक्का से मिला कर देखा है जब्कि हकीकत यह है कि अरबी में मक्का का उच्चारण वेद में लिखे गए मखः से मिलता जुलता ही किया जाता है। Makhah and not Mecca । वेद के विभिन्न अनुवादकों ने मखः का विभिन्न अनुवाद किया है और आपस में बहस भी की है कि यह अनुवाद ठीक है कि वह। परन्तु जो सही अनुवाद था वह किसी ने नहीं किया।

Rishi Dayanand Saraswati says: “Prof. Maxmuller takes Makhah to mean the sacrificer and translates ‘The sacrificer cries aloud’. But Makhah means Yajna which brings about the happiness to and welfare of all beings through the purification of the air and the water. Prof. Maxmuller’s statement that there are two passages where Makhah refers to an enemy of the gods is also erroneous because it is a simile there.”

परन्तु हम जो अनुवाद कर रहे हैं वह ही सही है यह मैक्स म्यूलर के अगले मंत्र के अनुवाद से साबित हो जाता है। अगले मंत्र से साबित हो जाता है कि इंद्र जो स्वर्ग का नूर हैं वह धरती पर आएंगे। देखिए मंत्र 9 का मैक्स म्यूलर का अनुवादः

From Yonder, O traveler (Indra) come hither, or from the light of heaven, the singers all yearn for it.

इससे साबित है कि जिस मध्य स्थान और छिपे हुए स्थान की बात हो रही थी वह मखः आज का मक्का ही है।
क्या इससे यह साबित नहीं होता कि वेदिक समय के लोगों को पता था कि इंद्र और मारूत आने वाले समय में मानव शरीर में पैदा होंगे और वे उस समय की प्रतीक्षा में थे। यही कारण है कि ब्रहद अराण्यका उपनिषद एक स्थान पर कहता है कि जब कोई व्यक्ति मरणासन पर होता था तो अपने पुत्रों को बुलाकर कहता था कि मेरे समय में तो वे नहीं आए परन्तु यदि तुम्हारे समय में आएं तो तुम भाग्यवान होगे। The singers yearn for it से भी साबित है कि वेद लिखे जाते समय तक उनके आने की प्रतीक्षा हो रही थी।

मंत्र 10 में भी इंद्र से प्रार्थना की जा रही है भले ही वे देवलोक में हों या कि धरती पर मानव शरीर में या कि आकाश में।

In Mantra 10, the prayer is made to Indra, irrespective of where he is. He could be in heavens as he was in those times, or could take birth on earth; yet, it is to him that we ask for help.

Maxmuller writes:
We ask Indra for help from here, or from heaven, or from above the earth, or from the “Great sky.”
यदि इतना कुछ पढ़ने के बाद भी कोई कहे कि इंद्र या शिव अयोण्ज्यि हैं और कभी भी मानव शरीर में अवतरित नहीं हुए तो मौहम्मद अलवी वेदों, उपनिषद और गीता से असंख्य दूसरे उदाहरण दे सकता है। किसी भी संस्कृत के जानकार के पास वेद ले कर जाएं और जो कुछ मौहम्मद अलवी कह रहा है उसकी पुष्टि कर लें।
आगे प्रस्तुत है मौहम्मद अलवी की हीमा अग्नि, सुभास बोस और नागेंद्र सैट्टी से हुई बातचीत जिसमें उन्होंने मौहम्मद अलवी को तीन बार कमीना कहा कि वह अली और शिव के बीच रिश्ता जोड़ रहा था।

Hima Agni: Lolz Shiva is ayonija, never born from human womb. The one god who is manifestation of cosmos never a human. Don't try twist truth of Shiva for ur convenience
Subhas Bose: Listen Shiva was never born never died ..He is timeless ..for your knowledge search I tell you Shiva never incarnated or reincarted ..Li ga is physical manifestation of cradle of life..on Yoni of the linga there is fish turtle as well. Fish was first mammal ..so Vishnu is shown as reincarnation in mammal form..Only reincarnation of Vishnu is shown not of Shiva ..Shiva is absolute..
Subhas Bose: First tiu gain knowledge ..now am planning to throw you from this forum..I avoid to discuss with your community
Mohammad Alvi: If you are so angry, why discuss at all. Whatever I am saying is from my understanding of Vedas. If you have a different view, you are free to maintain it. Problem today is that there are myths and legends and reality. Unless you remove myths from reality, you will never reach the truth. Vedas talk of Devatas taking birth in human form 'as new born babes' at a secret place. I hope you are aware Vayu Deva is appellation for Chief Marut or Shiva.
Hima Agni: Well Hindu is a realized soul held on their dharma for eons. The asura shakti in slime bastard force did try to ruin Hindu by force n torture for centuries. WE RETAINED human values while 99% of Muslims turned their true nature asuras by virtue of their quotes from QURAN. We tolerated other religions n gave time n space unlike others. Let Me know if not by forced conversations n breeding like pigs would Muslims reach their marked target of exponential growth smile emoticon
Mohammad Alvi: The Asura Shakti is the Forces of Darkness that I am talking about. Krishna too has referred to them as Tamas [Darkness]. Word 'Devata' has root in 'diva
Subhas Bose: Marut is essence of Shiva not incarnation ..I am angry because of your concoction theory
Mohammad Alvi: The word 'Devata' has root in Divya or Light that I am referring to as Forces of Light. Creation of Devatas has been vividly described in Brhad-aranyaka Upanishad and various other Upanishads. Creation process talks of the number 14. Scriptures talk of 14 Manus. Muslim scriptures talk of the same 14 lights descending on earth to be called Ahlulbat. They too are 14. The Noor or Light manifested in human form and were called Ahlulbayt. This was same as when Vedas said Devatas will take birth as new born babes at a secret place. You can see my earlier posts regarding this or else I can post them again for you.
Hima Agni: Darling Mohammad Alvi u need not show our Vedas as pramana, reference. Coz each realized soul is absolute form of paramatma and our Atma tolerates truth and eliminates untruth. Let it b kin too we wage war for dharma rakshana. BTW don't try copy paste from some brit translation of our scripture. U need realization not mere reading
Mohammad Alvi: I too have not said Marut is an incarnation. Kalki will be an incarnation, you agree. Kalki will the Mahdi of the Muslims. Let's not get into whether Shiva reincarnated in human form to be known as Ali, Kalki will be presenting the true Divine Teachings of Dharm or Right Conduct. Let's wait for him to arrive.
Hima Agni: Lolz dude u juz said Ali was born Shiva while ago. N now u go back when we told u absolute Shiva.
Hima Agni: BTW our Vishnu won't reincarnate as juz one kalki. Or we have to wait for him till we die. A realized soul is god in itself. We defend our Hindu dharma from insane psychopaths n schizo looters.
Hima Agni: We are those devatas u been trying to reach.
Hima Agni: Lolz so the cooked up books got no control on dark forces huh. Well u know showing references of diff scriptures in half baked way won't serve the purpose of humanity.
Mohammad Alvi: Devatas are not what we show in serials on TV. We do not even know their true identity, their role in this cosmos. If we had known their role, we had not shown them in comic situations in serials. We are not even serious about knowing who they are. Because we have been misled by myths and false stories regarding they coming on earth and impregnating women, they remaining intoxicated and so on. This is false understanding of Devatas. Fact is we are not taking Vedas seriously enough to understand those who have been described as leaders of our organs of action and senses and about whom it is said that if you eat without giving a portion to them, you are thief. How can we offer a part of our food when we do not even know who they are? They are the leaders of heaven? How can we aspire to go to heaven when we do not know their true identity.
Hima Agni: No person is born as Muslim or xian or Hindu too. They are born as human. Only a realized soul is Hindu n true human. Save ur teachings for ur fellow mums and if u have any spine save them from their sins than try come to us n preach. ALSO making living earth a hell won't give any of u heaven
Hima Agni: Dear Mohammad Alvi do u read what we say ? Understand what's conveyed ?
Subhas Bose: Forget Heaven n hell. .there is nothing called heaven its perpetual lie and marketing gimmick to control human beings to go for other religion or sect..if your Allah was so powerful why he is not killing the Satan by sending your prophet
Mohammad Alvi: If you are saying there is no heaven, you are speaking against the teachings of Gita and Upanishads and Mahabharat. Gita talks of Indra's heaven. Upanishads have talked of heaven several times. And Mahabharat even shows Kauravas going to heaven towards the end. It is not just a symbolic heaven but even mentions dwarpals, etc. You are merely presenting myths and stories that are widely believed whereas I am presenting before you scriptural evidence from Vedas, Upanishads, Gita, Quran, Old and New Testament as well as teachings of Buddha. Let's talk with proofs from scriptures alone. Otherwise, there's no point talking any further.
Subhas Bose: Indra's heaven means of a deity's heaven not your Allah's heaven
Mohammad Alvi: Hima Agni ji, let's talk only from scriptures. Just as I have talked only from scriptures that are held dear by Christians when responding to a question from a Christian lady, I will talk to you only from Vedas, Gita, Upanishads, Purana and nothing outside.
Hima Agni: This guy simply pukes what Hez determined to without reading n realizing whats said
Mohammad Alvi: Indra is one of the deities of Vedas. Do you know what his role is in this cosmos? What is his relationship with Paramatma? What is his relationship with God? And what is his relationship with us? You know nothing yet you debate.
Subhas Bose: Indira was highest deity in Rig veda .. later he lost his status because of his low karma
Mohammad Alvi: If you say Indra lost his status because of his low karma, you are merely speaking from the myths and wrong understanding of Vedas. Give me scriptural evidence regarding this. If Indra was to perform low karma, why was he made the highest deity? Don't make mockery of religion by your wrong understanding.
Mohammad Alvi: That is why I say you people have no knowledge of the content of Vedas, Upanishads and other scriptures. You just speak from what little you have heard or read. I am ready to discuss anything with you merely from those scriptures that Hindus consider their own. To me, Vedas too are divine scriptures and I have highest regard for them.
Hima Agni [May 24, 6:34 p.m.]: Bastard u are blind to logic n tolerance n puke ur preconceived notion of references.
Mohammad Alvi: Hima ji, this is the common way of those who do not have reasonable queries up their sleeves. I am ready to talk from the Hindu scriptures? I will only answer from Vedas, Upanishads, Purana and Gita? If you are willing to discuss on a subject, let's do so or else let's move on.
Hima Agni: U r no seeker of truth by shallow hallow souless sinner as ur creed
Mohammad Alvi: Good bye. May the One God of the Universe be your guide and saviour.
Hima Agni: Shut up u have no dignity to acknowledge ur ignorance or admit ur lack of experience
Mohammad Alvi: May the One God of the Universe still bless you and guide you.
Hima Agni: Bunch of lies n ur lack of experience will not make u peace maker. Ppl like u r ones that ruin humanity
Hima Agni: Book worm never turns a warrior of light. Un realized soul doesn't turn a divine defender
Hima Agni: Fuck brain dead to feel powerful.. But know unrealized soul is evil in its true nature. U juz proved urself to b one
Hima Agni: Mohammad Alvi u talked about forces of light ...WE ARE THOSE forces of light testing ur strength u failed to acknowledge n learn. U may cheat world but u can't cheat a soul. Don't try messing truth with ur dim wit n copy pastes.
Hima Agni: U gotta be a soul infinite to feel the essence of Hindu beyond books n words. U will never be one with nature until u live a mundane life bound by body. u have no guts, strength to see it. May Shiva show no mercy on blasphemy shallow holes like u. Har Har Mahadev !!! Each realized soul is MAHADEV
Hima Agni: [May 24, 6:55 p.m.] Bastard u quit the battle ground as coward looser not facing ur limited knowledge . don't try show off ur copy paste as wisdom. Get lost
Hima Agni: Ur proven cowardice has no place here. Go try show off else where
Hima Agni: Mohammad Alvi u have no respect or code of honor. U r as good as all ur ancestors. Don't try show ur masked face of peace which has no truth n guts to accept honestly
Hima Agni: Mohammad Alvi why r u evading laddu ? Also why u quit n are back now to talk blasphemy
Mohammad Alvi: Hima Agni ji, I will only discuss with you on the basis of content of Vedas, Gita, Upanishads and Purana, and nothing else. My knowledge is limited and you have great knowledge. If you really wish to discuss on any topic of your choice that is pertaining to the Hindu scriptures let's discuss otherwise there's no point. I am not interested in your laddus.
Hima Agni: Well u evade questions that prove ur limited experience. So that is it ? U don't wanna know what u dont know is it ?
Hima Agni: U juz wanna sit n debate based on copy paste than realize as soul is it ??
Nagendra R Setty: Mohammad Alvi Don't cut paste scriptures it is very irritating.
Hima Agni: Nagendra R Setty Mohammad Alvi only parrots. He has no soul to realize. No heart that bleeds for inhuman. He juz talks from tip of tongue. And his limited source of scriptures don't convert into knowledge coz he didn't understand the depth.
Hima Agni; And he evades reality that won't suit him
Mohammad Alvi: It is strange you do not wish to discuss from scriptures that you call your own. Since I consider Vedas, Gita, etc. as scriptures from my God, I value them. Naturally, I won't be creating new content of the scriptures. I will be copy pasting from these scriptures alone to put forth my point. You always have the right to differ.
Hima Agni: Mohammad Alvi all our scriptures are not copy pasted as ur holy books.
Hima Agni: Thatz why told u, u gotta be a soul to realize being human n Hindu
Hima Agni: Baby Mohammad Alvi do u realize the limitation of copy paste
Hima Agni: There is lot more which has to be realized as soul than u find in copy paste
Hima Agni: U r missing the essence of Vedas n bhagavt Geeta being a book worm than being a realized soul
Nagendra R Setty: Hima Agni avoid the scriptures cut n paste debate. Ask him about Al-Taqya.
Subhas Bose: This is what he is doing. .
Mohammad Alvi: We have already discussed what is happening in middle east. Subhas Bose, you are speaking on my behalf. This discussion is leading no where. I quit. Good bye. All of you. May God bless all of you. Even our friend who called me bastard.
Hima Agni: Coz u r a bastard smile emoticon who won't stand as man of guts n be honest to admit ur ignorance of reality n wanna grope endlessly in darkness only copy pasting
Hima Agni: Also u are spinless leech preying on dead brains quoting copy paste than live as a realized soul. When u r a soul u will have no questions as all answers r within u. N no discussion coz itz already understood
Subhas Bose: Hima don't call bastard .your mistak e
Hima Agni: OK will take back the word bastard. Hez a zombie book worm with no soul
Hima Agni: Well be the fire. If Hez a soul he is purified by the jnanagni if Hez shallow hallow bookworm he will b burnt. No argument. My dad told me, only fools argue.
Subas Bose: Let it be ..Advaitvad says accept everyone ..
Hima Agni: Thatz what I been showing on his face. U gotta realize as soul not copy paste. There is no point
Subas Bose He got his own knowledge ...let it be..the moment you realize he is gasbag ..leave him..Narendra Setty is smart in that
Hima Agni If he has no manners to accept his inability he has no right to talk where he doesn't deserve to be. Realized is Hindu not the reciters. ALSO Hez not eaten a laddu how will he gain jnanamruta